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China Disinvited from Participating in 2018 RIMPAC Exercise

The People’s Republic of China Chinese Navy multi-role frigate Hengshui (572) and the guided-missile destroyer USS Stockdale (DDG 106) transit in formation during Rim of the Pacific 2016 on July 28, 2016. US Navy photo.

The U.S. military has disinvited China from participating in the upcoming Rim of the Pacific exercise in Hawaii, a Defense Department spokesman announced.

Citing actions in the South China Sea that run counter to international norms and a pursuit of free and open seas, Department of Defense spokesman Marine Lt. Col. Christopher Logan said the People’s Liberation Army Navy (PLAN) would not be participating in the exercise despite its participation in submarine safety and other non-warfighting components of the exercise in previous years.

“The United States is committed to a free and open Indo-Pacific. China’s continued militarization of disputed features in the South China Sea only serve to raise tensions and destabilize the region. As an initial response to China’s continued militarization of the South China Sea we have disinvited the PLA Navy from the 2018 Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) Exercise. China’s behavior is inconsistent with the principles and purposes of the RIMPAC exercise,” Logan said.

“We have strong evidence that China has deployed anti-ship missiles, surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems, and electronic jammers to contested features in the Spratly Islands region of the South China Sea. China’s landing of bomber aircraft at Woody Island has also raised tensions,” he continued.
“We believe these recent deployments and the continued militarization of these features is a violation of the promise that President Xi made to the United States and the World not to militarize the Spratly Islands.”

U.S. 3rd Fleet spokeswoman Lt. Cmdr. Julie Holland told USNI News that China had been scheduled to be part of the Combined Task Force (CTF) 175, led by U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Bertholf (WMSL-750) and joined by ships from several nations’ navies, as well as in CTF 171, led by U.S. naval expeditionary dive and salvage forces. PLAN would have brought four ships total, including its hospital ship Peace Ark, as well as a salvage diving team.

China participated in the 2016 exercise despite tensions at the time. Then-Defense Secretary Ash Carter said in April 2016, “Our approach to security in the region, as I indicated there, has always been to try to include everyone, so that’s our basic approach. So even as we stand strong and improve all of our systems and stand strong with our allies – and develop new partnerships with countries like India and Vietnam that we don’t have decades of experience with, like the Philippines; they’re all coming to us, in part because they’re concerned about China – but we’re still taking the approach of, everybody ought to work together here. So if the Chinese want to participate, I think it’s the right place for us to be. Come on, and instead of standing apart from everybody and isolating yourself and excluding yourself, try to be part of the system of cooperative nations that have made, as I said, the Asian miracle possible.”

In 2012 China was invited to participate in the 2014 exercise – where the PLAN sent four invited ships and one uninvited spy ship – and soon afterwards the U.S. invited China to rejoin them again in 2016. Despite South China Sea tensions and other friction between the two countries, naval leaders have long spoke of the importance of rehearsing humanitarian assistance and disaster relief drills together, communicating at sea to avoid collisions, and practicing safe ship handling and rescue drills in case of an emergency.

Russia, however, was not allowed to participate in 2016 due to its annexation of Crimea and aggression in Eastern Ukraine. Still, the Russian Navy sent a destroyer to follow USS America (LHA-6) and a spy ship to monitor the exercise.

 

The following is the complete statement by Defense Department spokesman Lt. Col. Christopher Logan: 

“The United States is committed to a free and open Indo-Pacific. China’s continued militarization of disputed features in the South China Sea only serve to raise tensions and destabilize the region. As an initial response to China’s continued militarization of the South China Sea we have disinvited the PLA Navy from the 2018 Rim of the Pacific (RIMPAC) Exercise. China’s behavior is inconsistent with the principles and purposes of the RIMPAC exercise.”

“We have strong evidence that China has deployed anti-ship missiles, surface-to-air missile (SAM) systems, and electronic jammers to contested features in the Spratly Islands region of the South China Sea. China’s landing of bomber aircraft at Woody Island has also raised tensions.”

“While China has maintained that the construction of the islands is to ensure safety at sea, navigation assistance, search and rescue, fisheries protection, and other non-military functions the placement of these weapon systems is only for military use.”

“We have called on China to remove the military systems immediately and to reverse course on the militarization of disputed South China Sea features.”

“We believe these recent deployments and the continued militarization of these features is a violation of the promise that President Xi made to the United States and the World not to militarize the Spratly Islands.”

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Categories: China, Foreign Forces, News & Analysis, U.S. Navy
Megan Eckstein

About Megan Eckstein

Megan Eckstein is a staff writer for USNI News. She previously covered Congress for Defense Daily and the U.S. surface navy and U.S. amphibious operations as an associate editor for Inside the Navy.

  • sferrin

    About time. I always thought inviting these guys was the height of stupidity. Like inviting the Soviets to REFORGER.

    • tiger

      Cheaper to make friends than enemies.

      • You aren’t going to make friends or enemies by who you invite to a military exercise. However, you will show developing navies how to become better – and is that really something you want to do with a navy that is your number 1 opponent?

        • tiger

          Our Number One enemy are screwed up American High school kids. Not China. They want a few bits of rock in the S. China Sea? Fine. We have plenty of our own from Midway to America Samoa.

          • NavySubNuke

            Certainly comrade tiger- or whatever the people who pay you to post this nonsense call you.

          • tiger

            Non sense? What is your endgame? March to the shores of Shanghai? No, just feeling practical today. But feel free to continue the Domino theory.

          • Martian

            Strawman much? your claim that keeping bad actors out of rimpac exercise is akin to invading china is absurd. Our allies don’t want china in the rimpac either.

          • NavySubNuke

            Come on now – is that really the best you can do?
            Certainly the people who tell you what to think expect better than this.

          • tiger

            When you see Chinese flying into the Pentagon. Then they will be a enemy. Until then, end the fight on the table rather than start new ones. Especially a unwinnable one.

          • NavySubNuke

            Except of course that the US has allies and partners in the region we need to defend and protect from the brutal and oppressive Chinese government.
            Just because China’s only friends are dictators and terrorists like North Korea and Pakistan doesn’t mean civilized nations like Japan, ROK, Australia, and the US have to abandon one another and only look out for their own self interests.
            Nice try though troll.

          • tiger

            It ls Memorial Day weekend. Enjoy it, have some fun and prayers for those still on Eternal Patrol. Me? I have to turn my sword in to a weedwacker right now.

          • Martian

            do you have many weeds in china?

          • tiger

            Pennsylvania is not in China.

          • Martian

            Relax comrade. we have you pegged

          • tiger

            I have no “comrades.” You seem to have some delusion not being on your bandwagon equates being Chinese or something.

          • Martian

            China has no friends

          • tiger

            No Friends is a Stretch….

          • Martian

            No friends is a fact.

          • Tiger seems confused as to who wants the islands Red China is seizing—it’s not the US.

          • NavySubNuke

            Seems confused or is paid to be confused?

          • Martian

            Our Number One enemy are screwed up American High school kids

            US high school kids commit and are victims of murder at less than half the rate of 25 years ago. Why are you insisting on dodging with red herrings?

          • MikeyDe

            Midway and American Samoa do not sit astride International Shipping lanes, Comrade.

          • tiger

            Hey lose the comrade crap. Have they stopped any shipping? No.

          • bluesscout

            Blame that on scum liberals

          • tiger

            Hmmm… Drugs have crossed all lines now. Political, social , racial, urban & rural. Of course because of that,we treat it differently then when it was a hood issue. Now instead of a war on drugs, we preach treatment and rehab.

          • bluesscout

            lol…another drain on our economy

          • Martian

            thanks for the view from a Chinese poster

          • tiger

            Sorry, not Chinese.

          • Martian

            you are

          • tiger

            Really, Based on what?

          • Martian

            lol You are called “comrade tiger” in 12 separate stories you comment on for a reason!

          • tiger

            Well your from Mars…..

        • tiger

          We need that opponent to help with the real regional problem. The NK’s. Why rock the boat now?

          • Martian

            China played rope-a-dope with us using N. Korea for 20 years now. We don’t need their “help” with N. Korea

          • DaSaint

            Please explain to me why we don’t just wipe North Korea’s nuclear sites off the map? What has Trump been waiting for? We’ve done the planning. We have the assets: B52s, B1s, B2s, CBGs? Why not just do it?

          • Jasper_in_Boston

            Please explain to me why we don’t just wipe North Korea’s nuclear sites off the map?

            Because we can’t. NK has at least SOME of their assets in deep underground bunkers unreachable even by American nuclear missiles. In other words, attacking NK means attacking a nuclear power that would almost certainly retaliate with everything in its arsenal. A first strike on NK by the United States thus risks getting LA or NY destroyed (sure, there are DOUBTS about NK’s ICBM capabilities, but doubts about whether or not they’ve perfected such technology isn’t the same as having knowledge that that they haven’t).

            In short, an attack by the USA on NK is the mother of all rolls of the dice — one liable to get millions of people killed — including lots of Yanks. Maybe George H.W. Bush should have struck first. Maybe Clinton should have. Maybe W. Bush should have. But that’s all water under the bridge now: Pyongyang is a confirmed nuclear power, and the only way forward is to attempt (to the greatest extent possible) to normalize relations, reduce tensions (and thus the risk of armed conflict) and double-down on anti-proliferation efforts elsewhere.

          • DaSaint

            Centrist doesn’t seem to understand that. My question was really rhetorical. You’re absolutely right, but some here seem to believe that we have this situation under control, but we don’t. Countries develop nuclear weapons so that other countries think twice about naked aggression:
            US-USSR/Russia
            India/Pakistan – By the way, notice we say NOTHING about either India or Pakistan having nuclear weapons. NOTHING.
            Israel – yes, everyone knows.
            It’s rumored that South Africa had/has them. Same with Brazil, though the latter is doubtful.

          • Martian

            FYI DaSaint=716

            same spelling and diction errors and both’s entire account activity is china topics

          • Jay

            Why don’t you ask that brilliant question to the thousands of South Koreans (and likely hundreds of Japanese) … our Allies…as well as thousands of Americans, military and civilians, who would most likely be killed? Too many movies and video games is not good for one’s relationship to objective reality.

          • DaSaint

            Jay, see my response to Jasper below.

            My question was rhetorical. I fully know that we can’t, but I feel that many here think POTUS can and will do anything, when the fact of the matter is he can’t (at least I hope not), for the very reasons you outline.

            So bluster aside, there is only so much short of all-out war that can be done to pressure NK.

          • Martian

            Yo comment has no relevance to my statement. Do you only use strawman arguments?
            NK has hardened assets, they can be destroyed in a large attack but not surgical attack

          • .Hugo.

            has the u.s. not played the same game using taiwan for the past 69 years too?
            .
            and don’t need chinese help? guess where kim has gone to before he met the sk president?

          • Martian

            that is laughable. go to Taiwan and then go to North Korea. Your claim they are the same is obscenely ignorant.

            and what chinese help? the Chinese are interested in maintaining a nuclear armed murderous nut in the north. Chinas FOUGHT to establish a murderous dictatorship up there. Everyone KNOWS Koreas will be reunited in a anti-communist country at some point in mind to long term. It is china’s greatest fear: democracy and freedom in korea.

          • .Hugo.

            the term “taiwan card” appears in taiwanese media all the time, so what should i exactly check there? 🙂
            .
            the chinese are interested in maintaining a buffer zone in the korean peninsula. nuclear or not nuclear, that’s more a u.s. concern as it is the one trying to destroy the north. 🙂
            .
            by looking at how the sk president treat kim, i just don’t see how “everyone knows korea will be a anti-communist country”, hehe….
            .
            get real, china’s fear is the loss of the buffer zone and the stability of the peninsula, not democracy & freedom in korea. they are not really related.
            .

        • .Hugo.

          for the sessions the chinese navy was allowed to participate, it wouldn’t make them better for they are already on par.
          .
          i believe it’s more like china giving the u.s. a courtesy when being invited.

          • bluesscout

            Its our exercise therefore our courtesy

          • .Hugo.

            when you invite a country, it is its decision to participate or not. with the irrelevant items that china was allowed to participate in the past, it was certainly a courtesy from china to send its forces.

          • bluesscout

            They were invited as a courtesy.why would we want them in relevant exercises?duh..

          • .Hugo.

            how relevant is radio and s&r drills then when they are all being practiced in other exercises? rimpac has combat drills, why not allowed china to join if china was invited “as a courtesy”?
            .

          • bluesscout

            Thats nice

          • Martian

            Hugo says the Chinese navy is equivalent to the US nave. OK I get he is Chinese but that is laughable!

          • bluesscout

            They are not equal..not by a longshot

      • Brian Stump

        Naive

        • tiger

          A DDG 1000 costs how much? The credit card of the nation is maxed now already.

          • Martian

            Strawman much?

            Our allied don’t want china in the rimpac either. not rewarding china forwht all its neighbors, consider its aggressive actions is what reduces our need to spend, not increases.

          • NavySubNuke

            **Yawn** If you think a DDG1000 is bad you should see how much we waste on earned income tax credit and medicare fraud alone.
            Besides, US debt interest rates are still absurdly low because the credit card is far from maxed out.
            Nice try though troll!

      • sferrin

        How that workin’? Last I saw China is now flying bombers from their new islands. Makin’ “friends” is sure working out isn’t it?

        • tiger

          And we fly Bombers off Guam near daily for months. We have a fight already. Nobody in China is chopping heads or yelling Aloha Snack bar. No need to start a fight where there is none.

          • sferrin

            We’ve only been on Guam since WWII. Just a tad different than China building island in somebody else’s territory and operating their bombers from them.

          • muzzleloader

            Actually Guam has been a territory of the US since 1898 and the end of the Spanish American war.

          • tiger

            Actually we picked it up in the Spainsh American War along with Puerto Rico.

    • bluesscout

      Now the vodka swillin russkies and 3rd world china will hold joint exercises in south china sea

  • Ed L

    Build up Guam

    • tiger

      The people there have enough plane noise now.

      • Martian

        Tiger, I see from your post history you are Chinese. The US is working in concerns with its allies and china’s beleaguered neighbors who all want to stand up against China’s aggression.

    • .Hugo.

      sure, kick the locals out first.

      • muzzleloader

        You have just indicated that you know nothing about Guam, troll.

        • .Hugo.

          doesn’t matter if i know guam or not, when the locals still need a place to live if you want to expand the bases there. 🙂
          .

          • muzzleloader

            I used to live there, and there is plenty of room for people to live, believe me.

          • .Hugo.

            i have worked there too, i know it has plenty of room, but still it’s an island, no? so if you want to make a large part of the island a military base, you will have to kick the people out. 🙂
            .

  • Lee Walter

    Another Obama failure to keep China in check…….

    • Grintsum

      In other words, another Obama policy to weaken the US that President Trump has brought to a screeching halt.

    • Duane

      And now Trump is “keeping China in check”?

      You mean like when Trump ordered his Sec of Commerce to rescue China’s large telecom company ZTE from economic sanctions imposed on them for doing prohibited business in North Korea, and which most telecom experts say is using their overseas telecom equipment to spy on the US and other hostile nations?

      Or do you refer to the 150 billion in sanctions Trump ordered be levied on China last month, only to be rescinded last week, apparently because Trump is so desperate for a Nobel Peace Prize that he has already shown he will cave at the slightest threat to his just reward?

      Sorry … not seeing any Trump resolve whatsoever when it comes to dealing with enemies who have already figured out that his massive ego makes him the easiest kind of mark for any scam.

      • Lee Walter

        Due to the amount of time that has past and the amount of work done on the islands…..one can do only so much to keep the peace.
        What do you want him to do? Push back hard?
        We currently are pressing China on trade.
        The relations with China is already heated up.
        *If this is all Trump is willing to do….he failed.

        • Duane

          What a good leader does is to not constantly bleat about how horrible his predecessors did, claim how he is so superior a deal maker, and then fold like a cheap suit when he inevitably encounters a push back. Such a leader only looks like a braggart, a charlatan, and a snake oil salesman (Trump certainly is just that) while damaging the interests of the nation he leads.

          Every other world leader plays Trump for the fool and easy mark that he is. Both our enemies, and even our allies.

          Just remember – Trump is the only President in our history who managed to make North Korea’s “Maximum Leader” look good. That’s quite a trick!

          • Marcd30319

            What a good leader does is to not constantly bleat about how horrible his predecessors did…

            Like Obama did?

          • DaSaint

            Obama isnt here and isn’t the one who rescinded sanctions on ZTE, based on OUR Intelligence agencies.

          • Martian

            Obama fought against ZTE sanctions the entire time

          • DaSaint

            If you say so, but how many US telecom companies get to operate in China NOW without being 51% owned by some Chinese general?

          • .Hugo.

            that’s chinese law, you don’t have to enter the chinese market if you don’t want to comply. no one is forcing you to.
            .

          • DaSaint

            You’re absolutely right. And don’t misinterpret. The US and European companies that are there aren’t leaving anytime soon. And that’s because they are seduced by 2 things: 1) the ability to benefit from low production costs (while it lasts), thereby helping margins, and 2) the appeal of 1.3 billion Chinese with a significant growing middle-class market to purchase many of those same products.

            Capitalism.

            Irrespective of the bluster of successive administrations, unless tensions really get heated up, those companies are staying put. But should they leave, they’re heading to India (longtime rival to China), and to a lesser extent, Vietnam. But that’s a slow process, as most infrastructure in China is much more developed than India.

          • .Hugo.

            don’t think it is still cheap to produce in china anymore, only the skillful workforce and superb infrastructure are still the advantages. chinese manufacturers themselves are moving overseas to enjoy lower labour cost….
            .
            as with india, unless indians really change their habbits, otherwise it won’t surpass china.

          • Wolf Angel

            No worries it’s Bush’s fault. …

          • Marcd30319

            That’s always Obama’s excuse.

          • jack anderson

            absolutely, just as the preceding president shouldn’t undermine the current president with weaponized intelligence services and treasonous ex SECSTATES. The Republic will only be safe when Obmammmaa, Michael O, Valerie and just about everyone who worked for him is in prison.

          • DaSaint

            So why doesn’t Trump have them arrested and charged for treason, like he said?

          • Martian

            It is sufficient to end all of Obama legacy as has been done

          • tiger

            Well he still has Mount Denali and a Nobel on the shelf….. He feels no pain.

          • muzzleloader

            Every world leader plays Trump for a fool? The “fool” has persuaded the NATO countries to pay their proper dues which has been long overdue, he has managed to have three Americans held hostage from NK released without paying them billions of dollars or releasing terrorists leaders like Obama did.
            He closed the Russian consulate in Seattle and expelled 60 Russian personnel, and has been cultivating a tremendous relationship with the Gulf nations. He is bringing auto production back to the USA from Mexico. I could go on. If that is being played for a fool, I’ll take that any day compared to the disaster that went before him.
            Your hatred of POTUS is well known on this site, but if you really think that the homicidal maniac in North Korea looks good next to Trump, that says it all for leftists like yourself.

          • tiger

            Fool? No, he is going back to the same approach to affairs as TR and Reagan.

          • Martian

            Tiger, I see from your post history you are Chinese. The US is working in concerns with its allies and china’s beleaguered neighbors who all want to stand up against China’s aggression.

            the countries working to stop china’s aggression aggregate to WAY more economic and military power than China has.

            Long term things look very bad for china until it joins the community of peaceful neighbors in the region

          • tiger

            Chinese? Uh, my family has been in the USA since 1715. And Arlington is full. If you wish to expand it, feel free.

          • Martian

            Bull

          • tiger

            Care to expand your sentence?

          • Martian

            Obama made N. Korea’s maximum leader look good at every turn by letting him be outsmarted by him.

            Trump has outsmarted and boxed both N. Korea and China

      • .Hugo.

        do you know which u.s. firms and which industries will be hard hit if he doesn’t do that?

        • Martian

          Relax, china has way more to lose

          • .Hugo.

            i am very relaxed when i seeing news like this, only someone is getting nervous and always tries to downplay the trade war in the other side of the pacific. 🙂
            .

    • Bruiser in Houston

      Another Clinton “victory by selling them our technology.

      • DaSaint

        Blame Nixon. He opened the door, right? Or is he forgiven?

        • Martian

          Nixon had to deal with a Democrat started war

          • DaSaint

            Nixon was the first U.S. president to visit the PRC, which at that time considered the U.S. one of its foes, and the visit ended 25 years of separation between the two sides.

            Nixon. Normalized. Relations. With. China.

            Nixon. Opened. The. Door.

            I didn’t mention political parties. Just stating the facts.

          • Martian

            And? You wrote “blame Nixon” Nixon didn’t cave to china on any of china military expansionism. Nixon outsmarted the Chinese.

    • tiger

      Who made us God? We have had our turn playing Empire maker for the last 150 years. The 21st Century is time for China to do it’s thing.

      • Deploracles Infidelicus

        God made us God.
        There. Now ya know.

      • Patriot

        There you have it. The liberal agenda. “Fuck America, Go communist china!”

        • Martian

          tiger is not a liberal, they are a chinese poster, look at post history

          • tiger

            Enough of that garbage Space 👽.

        • tiger

          No… I am not spending blood, sweat or tears over rocks half way arround a planet nobody lived on ever.

      • Martian

        China will never be dominant. All its neighbors hate them. The US has a huge number of allies — china has none. it wont even dominate it own region ever

        • DaSaint

          Try not to use absolutes. My experience is that they end up biting one in the A**.
          Great Britain used to be the master of the seas, and the world’s dominant power for what, 300 years? No? Where are they now?

          Rome ruled for 1000 years. Where is the Roman Empire now?

          Greece ruled the Med for 1000 years. Where is Greece now.

          Don’t ever say never or ever.

          • Martian

            Uhm Britain is fully part of the political, diplomatic, military and commercial system dominating the world

            Greece and Rome shaped the world with democracy, rationality, exploration, Rome with engineering, law, commerce systerm and civic structure.

            those cultures ALL still dominate the world — and in fact china’s march toward civilization has been adopting those, not putting its own values anywhere.

            china never has had a democracy or power projection outside of china.

            If china ever becomes actually relevant it will be because it stopped being Chinese, in which case it wont be a threat to anyone.

          • tiger

            Bingo!

        • .Hugo.

          because all neighbors want some parts of china, and the u.s. is exploiting the situation.
          .
          china follows the non-alignment policy and it doesn’t create your so-called “allies” when it’s all one sided military based with no economic benefits like the strategic partnerships which china has formed with many countries and trade bodies.
          .

          • Martian

            Nonsense my Chinese friend. China is consider by it neighbors to be rogue and expansionist. Your blaming the dozens of countries working with te US, your claim that the Philippines, Japan and all china’s neighbors are trying to “take parts of china” is absurd. no one is.

          • .Hugo.

            don’t see anything nonsense, when it was china first made its maritime border announcement in 1947. most rogue states did not start to steal from china until oil and gas were discovered 20 years later.
            .
            an no, they are not working with the u.s., they are only working FOR the u.s., there’s a big difference there.
            .
            without solid backing, i just don’t see what is absurd. all i can see from you so far are groundless accusations against china. 🙂
            .

        • tiger

          Does that pave pot holes on I 95 or fix water pipes in Flint, MI? No. And this same folk will cry “Yankee go home,” next time a jet crashes or sailor rapes somebody.

          • Martian

            You clearly have never been to china — it has 100 flint Michigan poison water cities.

    • .Hugo.

      do you mean keep china in check so it won’t challenge the u.s. hegemony?

      • Martian

        China is unable to challenge the US, it has no friends

        • .Hugo.

          no friends? the shanghai cooperation organization has more than 40% of the world’s population and trade volume. china has strategic partnership agreements with many major powers and trade bodies too. china is also a permanent member of the u.n. security council and the largest contributor of peacekeepers among the 5 of them. 🙂
          .

  • Grintsum

    What a relief that CINCPAC has finally decided to stop showing China how the US will fight and defeat the Chinese navy during the inevitable war that’s going to be fought over Taiwan.

    • DaSaint

      The US isn’t going to fight a war over Taiwan. It will protest, but will not sacrifice US lives for Taiwan. We don’t even have an official defense/security agreement with them, the way we have with countries like Japan, South Korea, Australia, and New Zealand.

      • Duane

        Don’t be so sure. Defending free nations against foreign aggression is in our national interests, especially in the Indo-PAC …since PRC domination of ROC would be the first in a line of fallen dominoes that would inevitably lead either to a US-PRC war or driving the US completely out of the Indo-PAC, there are extremely good reasons for us to support the ROC.

        On the other hand, China is incapable of a successful amphibious invasion of ROC. If they were, they would have done so 70 years ago. The PRC has never successfully invaded anybody. They got their behinds whipped by Gen MacArthur in Korea, and whipped again by the Vietnamese in the late 70s.

        • DaSaint

          Let me skip to your second paragraph. Do you really believe that what someone didn’t do 70 years ago, when they were a paper tiger with no world influence, has anything to do with today, when arguably they are the fastest growing world economy and power? Korea and Vietnam are beyond yesterday. Today is today. Say that they couldn’t defeat Taiwanese forces, but don’t say that because they were ‘X’ 70-years ago, that that condition applies today. That’s not a reasonable argument.

          • Grintsum

            An amphibious operation is the hardest of all military operations to successfully conduct. China has only recently begun to build the capability to conduct a small one, and they certainly don’t have any combat experience in that realm of warfare. Even worse for the PLA is the 100 miles they would have to cross from mainland China to the heavily defended beaches of Taiwan. They will not be able to pull off an operation of that size with any sense of tactical surprise, and certainly not any recourse to recover their landing force if they can’t seize the beaches, ports, and airfields that would be necessary to successfully invade Taiwan. I’m not saying they are not going to try, because it has been their strategic policy for decades that that is exactly what they intend to do. However, when they do try to militarily seize Taiwan, the Taiwan Straits is going to turn red from the blood of PLA soldiers who never made it off their landing boats.

          • DaSaint

            We all keep fighting the last war. China may use cyber to disable Taiwanese systems. May use special forces to eliminate key targets. May even convince portions of the Taiwanese forces not to fight.

            I think it dangerous for us to keep looking at WW2 as the format for future conflict. China has the benefit of time. Taiwan doesn’t.

          • Grintsum

            The only way to win a war is with ‘boots on the ground.’ Without PLA troops on Taiwan’s soil, everything else the chicom’s do is just an expensive, unending exercise in futility.

          • DaSaint

            So you’re saying impossible?

          • Martian

            China is fighting the last war much more than the US. china’s entire doctrine strategy is a dead end due its its poor position.

            Even if trump gets nowhere with N. Kora, that wont be sustained and a united korea, like a united Vietnam will be another problem for china

          • Martian

            China does not even come close to the aggregate of power of its neighbors working with the US.

            US has multiples of china’s power in alliances and always will.

            You sound like the guys who were saying in the 1970’s the Soviets were on the way up in

          • DaSaint

            I didn’t realize that we shifted to aggregating power. I thought this was a discussion of PRC vs. ROC. No?
            Do you really think Vietnam or Philippines, or Korea or Japan would come to the PRC’s assistance if the ROC were attacked by the PRC?
            Do you think Australia or New Zealand would send forces to support the ROC?

            How about this: How many countries have maintained OFFICIAL relations with Taiwan? The answer to that will tell you the countries that may come to it’s defense.

            The rest have officially recognized China as the OFFICIAL entity, and therefore acknowledge China’s right to ‘reunite’ their ‘wayward’ province, as they put it.

            IMHO, the US will not go to war over that, no more than Great Britain was ready to snub China and hold onto Hong Kong. It wasn’t worth the price.

            We would sanction them. We would protest in the UN. But we would NOT stop trading with them. We’re too too far in bed with them and our economy is too dependent on them, short of all-out unavoidable direct conflict over a real reason, like a Chinese bomber sinks a US carrier.

        • EdG1955

          Um, you might want to read up on Korean War and Sino-Vietnam War history as you are seriously deluded.

          • Martian

            The chinse lost all their strategic goals in the Sino Vietnam ware

      • Grintsum

        If Obama or either of the Clintons were to be president in 2020, then I would agree with you that Taiwan is screwed. However, President Trump isn’t going to allow the reputation of the US as the defender of the free world to be soiled or impugned. The Chinese publicly announced in the early 1980’s that their long range planning includes the subjugation of Taiwan either peacefully or militarily by 2020. Consequently, they have been updating their armed forces during the past 35 years to fight a regional war with the US over Taiwan. So the critical timeframe for the Taiwanese to safeguard their independence falls somewhere between 2020 and 2022. Which by the Will of God will be approximately in the middle of President Trump’s 8 year administration.

        • DaSaint

          And President Xi’s term is how long?

          • Grintsum

            Lifelong.

          • DaSaint

            So he can wait until Trump is out of office…and the next President, and the next.

          • Grintsum

            How long do you think Xi is going to live?

          • DaSaint

            Probably longer than 6 years.
            Point is the Chinese have really long range goals, and they like to wait. They’ve already surpassed the Russians, right?

          • Grintsum

            Like all communists they follow their long range plans, regardless of what happens, because to admit failure of the plan is the same as criticizing the Party, and that would be political heresy. So, if Xi is still in power in 2020, any attempt by him to delay the annexation of Taiwan until after President Trump leaves office would serve as a pretext for the chicom’s to oust him from the Party’s chairmanship.

            Also, in what manner do you believe the Chinese have “already surpassed the Russians?” Militarily? Economically? Societally?

          • DaSaint

            Well Russia transformed somewhat following the fall of the Berlin Wall. Putin has tried to reclaim past glory, but that’s for another conversation.

            China first surpassed Russia in terms of their economy.
            China has also surpassed Russia in military spending.
            I’m not about to compare Russia and China societally. Out of my comfort zone.

          • Martian

            China has nowhere near the resources the Russians have, nor reach. they have not surpassed the Russians in fact are well behind in many respects. so in terms of military it is probably a wash.

            In terms of economy both are fragile. both at serious disadvantages from the rest of the world due to their non democratic systems. such systems always implode.

            Were they are similar is none have any real alliances, friends, allies

    • PolicyWonk

      Your optimistic point of view is highly inspiring!

      ;-P

      • Grintsum

        Perhaps not inspiring, but certainly informed on the subject.

  • DaSaint

    No complaints here. Just be prepared to be followed by an intelligence ship.

  • Duane

    China certainly needs to experience consequences for their bad behavior. All things considered, I generally subscribe to the Godfather strategy of “keep your friends close … and your enemies closer.” But in this instance, the Navy leadership is sending a useful message by excluding the PLAN from RIMPAC.

    • .Hugo.

      consequences? maybe the u.s. should worry about that more nowadays….. 🙂
      .
      china can simply send in more spy ships to observe rimpac. after all, it’s the pacific and that involves china’s security interest too.
      .
      .

  • Ser Arthur Dayne

    Nothing like a good-old dis-invitation to say “neener neener neener” to a country.

  • Johnny Mahute

    Within the last ten or twelve years there have been two tsunamis and countless hurricanes, volcanos and other disasters in the region. Humanitarian Assistance and Disaster Relief (HADR) efforts in SEA and the South Pacific are not unusual, they are the norm. In each case the United States, often augmented by one or more Asian nations comes to the rescue. The US additionally conducts a bi-annual HADR related training evolution entitled Pacific Partnership (PP). Asian nations in concert with the United States Navy should organize a major HADR exercise with a multinational headquarters on the Spratley Islands. The Peoples Republic of China (PRC) should be thanked for developing this tremendous Command and Control Center and Logistics hub acknowledging the tremendous foresight in identifying and developing this Open Ocean location for the benefit of all of Asia. Media coverage should be maximized featuring coverage of the amphibious arrival of HADR dedicated military personnel from all Asian, South Pacific and South Asian nations. A Blue-Ribbon Panel of real heavies could be invited to discuss: knowledgeable scholars such as (names removed). They could discuss the importance of interoperability in HADR events! Opening remarks would not only effusively praise the PRC but also highlight their additional efforts in Djibouti! Additional and redundant gratitude and accolades will be bestowed upon the PRC for having the foresight and intellect to develop this critical infrastructure illustrating China’s understanding of their need to “step up” and assume a leadership role in Asia. So simple, just do this and then NEVER NEVER NEVER leave! What could they really do? Go to The Hague for relief?

    • DaSaint

      Love it!

  • PolicyWonk

    When uninviting the Chinese, it’s important to use the right language when doing so in an international setting. Citing China’s “loss of face” by deliberately lying about their intentions to fortify/arm the artificial islands is a better way to send the message (because that is one thing that does concern them).

    Then, there’s also a concerted, quiet, and global boycott. The world existed before China opened up to the world. What’s more important: everyone’s national security, or near-term profits?

    • tiger

      Folk like thier iphones and 10k other stuff at Walmart. We buy. They keep a billion folks busy putting in tiny screws. It works and the World is a happy place.

      • Martian

        Tiger, I see from your post history you are Chinese. The US is working in concerns with its allies and china’s beleaguered neighbors who all want to stand up against China’s aggression.
        the countries working to stop china’s aggression aggregate to WAY more economic and military power than China has.

        Long term things look very bad for china long term

    • .Hugo.

      china has not lied about enhancing the defense on the islands.
      .
      only the u.s. has lied about wmd when invading iraq.
      .
      and china existed before the west started to get civilized too, yet they all have to enter the chinese market today, so what are you trying to imply as your advantage?

  • Bob USAF(ret)

    Good, in the near future China’s navy will be used not for peace but for intimation on the whole word, which they want to dominate and for their communist way on all.

    • Duya Taksis

      In other words, exactly like the US navy is used.

      • Martian

        Nonsense. no one in the region thinks so, they all dislike chain’s increasing aggression.
        china has always been backwards and now it is more so.

        • Duya Taksis

          China has always been backwards? How laughable – China invented civilization. It does not become an American to speak of “backwardness” and “aggression”, friend.

          • Martian

            Nonsense, china has lagged in all civilization development. Last in cultivation, last in metallurgy, last in world discovery, and now last as a backwards communist dictatorship

    • XIcarusX

      They will be crushed.

  • mtbatman

    China is our enemy..and should be treated as such.

    • tiger

      Dumb idea.

      • Deploracles Infidelicus

        YEAH! Let’s appease them and draw red lines like dingleBarry! Let’s go all Chamberlain on them for PEACE in our time! That’s SURE to work!

        • tiger

          So you plan on marching to Shanghai or something?

          • Martian

            Strawman much? your claim that keeping bad actors out of rimpac exercise is akin to invading china is absurd. Our allies don’t want china in the rimpac either

        • Is it a tiger or a pussy-cat?

        • .Hugo.

          no, you don’t draw red lines with china, you can only work with china. chamberlain was part of europe, the u.s. is not part of asia.

      • Mike Weeds

        yes your response certainly is

        • tiger

          What have they done to you lately?

          • Mike Weeds

            what are you on about? i was referring to how the reply doesn’t contribute at all to the comment.

          • tiger

            That is a opinion. We are free to offer any. Making enemies of a billion plus people & a major trade market is dumb.

          • Mike Weeds

            your certainly free to make as many comments as you like. no one is stopping you. however, don’t get upset when you are criticized for making a dumb comment. the stuff about making enemies is completely irrelevant.

          • tiger

            Based on some the other posts here, your talking to the wrong person.

          • Martian

            We are not making enemies of a billion people, we are making friends with two billion people who china is increasingly threatening.

          • tiger

            Dis-inviting China from a RimPac does make friends either? There is time and place for sticks and carrots. Lately we are a bit stick heavy.

          • Martian

            dis-inviting made friends. it was a very popular move withe other Rimpac and other regional countries. china is surrounded by 2.5 billion people who don’t like it s aggression, threats to other countries, etc.

            And who is we? Your posts show you are chinese.

          • tiger

            The only thing Chinese is the Take place around the corner. Sorry…

    • Duya Taksis

      You can’t afford an enemy like China.

      • Martian

        Actually those opposed to china on its illegal and aggressive actions add up to way more GDP than China has. We save money by working with our allies against china’s aggression

        • .Hugo.

          are you so sure?
          .
          by the way, the only illegal actions were actually conducted by the rogue states around the scs when they all started to grab chinese islands from the 1960s.
          .
          your so-called “aggressive” chinese actions are in fact defense actions required to protect its sovereignty.
          .

          • Martian

            OK Democracies like s. korea, Japan are “rogues states” and genocidal dictatorships like china are not? lol. Why do you think china has NO friends and a gigantic alliance is developing to stop china’s rogue actions?

          • .Hugo.

            what? sk and japan? when have they invade anything in the south china sea?
            .
            nice try mixing facts up, but too easy to be seen. 🙂
            .
            by the way, genocidal dictatorship doesn’t affect a country’s sovereignty. that’s its domestic affairs. 🙂
            .
            there is also no gigantic alliance developing, for china itself is a permanent member of the u.n. security council with veto power, and the sco covers 40% of the world’s population. 🙂
            .

  • T00fless

    We plan to hand u over to the Syrians as compensation. Enjoy!

    • EdG1955

      I doubt you’d find me easy to hand since you’re tiny and weak.

      • Marcd30319

        So says Thumbelina.

      • Martian

        Ed, China and Russia have been declining in power

        • EdG1955

          Then what explains all the wailing and gnashing of teeth by US politicians and pundits about how the US is losing the China and Russia? Why has Mueller spent 10s of millions of dollars investigating President Trump? Why are we sending naval vessels to the South China Sea? Why are we expanding NATO? Why are we ‘modernizing’ our nuclear weapons?

          • Martian

            We are expanding NATO because we have between the fk out of the sad pitiful Russians and russin even close in neighbors have joined 🙂 It is a GOOD thing to expand NATO. Same with chinas neighbors, they are all joining with US, China is losing the long game. Siding with the US are Japan, Korea, Philippines, Vietnam, india, Australia and others.. In aggregate way more military and economic POWER than china will ever have.
            I lived and worked in china for a year two years ago. Chinese politician and pundits wail and gnash about losing to the US all the time, why is that?
            By the way the US justice department spent 10’s of millions investigating Hillary issues, obama issues, bush issues, Bill Clinton, reagan issues, that is normal in a democracy. Germany France thee uk also have had large investigations.. yet china has more corruption

  • Keeper2

    Finally!
    I’m so tired of no repercussions to the increasingly belligerent behavior of communist China.
    No wonder they push the limits; because there’s no reason not to!

  • oncemorearound

    The ChiComs aren’t going to be able to steal technology without that invitation.

    • .Hugo.

      invitation to such low level participation? errr….just what is worth stealing? radio procedures? 😀
      .

      • Martian

        china is so backwards hey had to steal the design for forks

        • .Hugo.

          or china just made forks for the west instead as china used chopsticks not forks.
          .
          sorry i know that requires some skills and not suitable for every westerners…. 🙂
          .

  • MJEF

    Uhh is that the only thing we are good at. “If you guys dont play nice,,….why….why…..Your not invited to the party!” Just keep building it all up though right.. we will keep feeding you billions of our money and trillions worth of our Gddmn tech.

  • Hiphop Basketball Foundation

    correction the US is the worlds sole superpower. thats why we get to run rampant around the globe, just like all the wanna be’s wish they could.

  • GWAR44

    It is ..by people like you allowed to live here..

  • Duane

    Bad decisions, from the perspective of US national interests, do not equal “bad behavior”. In Iraq we went to the UN and made our case for enforcing the UN’s own sanctions. Because of veto powers belonging to Russia and China we could not obtain a SC resolution in favor of deposing Saddam Hussein …. but we did obtain the approval and joint participation of most of (dozens of) our allies. And when we deposed SH, we turned government over to the Iraqi people, and then ended operations there a few years later … and then were invited back a few years after that to stop ISIS.

    That was certainly not bad behavior.

    • DaSaint

      “…and then ended operations there a few years later … and then were invited back a few years after that…”

      Did you say a FEW?? Wow!

    • .Hugo.

      so you have to lied about wmd, then invade iraq without u.n. endorsement.
      .
      no wonder you ended up in a mess now.
      .

  • babebig00

    Good.. they are NO GOOD

  • babebig00

    Build factories HERE..shut em off

  • pgaudet

    China is as RED as it ever has been. RED CHINA is an Evil Empire, a Dictatorship, and NOT a Friend of Any Nation in the Western World. Don’t buy their CRAP and certainly make sure neither your food or your pet’s food is imported from that polluted cesspit!

    • .Hugo.

      the german chancellor just visited beijing after being bullied by the u.s.
      abe is about to meet xi in beijing too, hmmm…..
      .

      • Martian

        LOL the German Chancellor threatened trade sanctions against china,(china caved) demanding elections Tibet. Last month Germany agree to assist paying for US military and offset European deployments more more Us assets east. ALL massive loses for chinese diplomacy

        • .Hugo.

          just read the press release, where is your trade sanction from germany? do you know how many times she has visited beijing? and since when she has mentioned elections in tibet when it has been a chinese autonomous region since the qing dynasty? when has germany recognized an independent tibet? 🙂
          .
          just don’t see what massive losses you are talking about when one was done by pure pressure (u.s.) where the other was pure benefits driven (china). 😀
          .

  • Marcd30319

    Does that dis-invite include that Chinese spy ship from 2014?

  • Leroy

    I hope we were smart enough to shut off all our tactical radars and other sensitive electronics in past RIMPAC exercises! Why do I have my doubts?

    • .Hugo.

      that’s unavoidable unless ecm warfare and live shootings are not in the agenda…. 🙂

  • Bruiser in Houston

    That’s okay. Their shps suck anyway.

    • tiger

      At least they can steer……

      • Martian

        China has had a huge number of accidents at sea — they just don’t report them

        • .Hugo.

          that’s quite unlikely, for the vessels involved would have to make insurance claim and it’s required to report such accidents to the local maritime authorities and that would not be the chinese ones every time.
          .

          • Martian

            What nonsense. Chinese military vessels make insurance claims? they do not. Read up in Janes, china has very few blue water military vessels but a very high rate of problems — even several mutinies that have gone unreported.

          • .Hugo.

            the civilian vessels will need to make a claim.
            .
            and i have to wonder which part and what year of the janes you are really quoting, for china has been conducing blue water operations far away in african waters non stop for a decade now.
            .
            and a few blue water military vessels? when was the last time you counted the number of the type 052c/d and 054 destroyers/frigates in the chinese navy?
            .
            high rate of problem? like what? like breaking down in the middle of the ocean like the recent royal navy and u.s. navy? or colliding with civilian ships like the u.s. navy? 😀

  • Humungus Humungus

    All these chicken Hawks here squeaking for a new war, while wearing made in China garbiage from Wallmart, and using made in China garbiage from Home Depot , and made in China , their dinner from the dollar store. Or if they’re lucky enough to have $7 bucks, for al you can eat Chinese buffet. When was the last time you were able to walk 50 feet, or tie your shoe laces? Hmmm? Take another opioid made in China , of course.

    • DaSaint

      You make a good point. I wish everyone here who takes a stand against China – and some of those stands are valid, IMO – would STOP purchasing products Made In China. Put our money where your mouth is, and purchase alternate products from other countries, or here’s an idea, ONLY PURCHASE PRODUCTS MADE HERE IN THE USA!

      • Martian

        Strawman much? Muscular assertion of reasonable trade polices is not saying “only buy in the US.”
        You comments are the most ridiculous and absurd strawman and red herring assertions

  • DanKhoQua

    China ban Vietnam fishing on Vietnam’s water, also even shooting and killing Vietnamese fishermen who dare to go out. The Vietnamese government who is the puppet of China always try to sooth the matter out by saying their fishing boats got attacked by “unidentified” force, but the people already know it’s from China. Enough with China’s propaganda of navigation assistance and fisheries protection!!!

    • Frank Rizzo

      When once Vietnam and the US were enemies, now they are becoming closer and closer allies

      • DanKhoQua

        That’s true. All Vietnamese people both North & South now cannot wait for American to come back.

        • .Hugo.

          sure, and since when the u.s. has a policy to support a communist regime?

    • .Hugo.

      that’s was the philippine coast guard (aka pirates in uniform) has done to chinese fishermen only after failing to extort from them.
      .

  • jack anderson

    Obmamaaaa didn’t have a problem with China setting up an ADIZ in the East China Sea or weaponizing stolen reefs in the SCS, Clinton didn’t have a problem with them stealing our warhead designs ,so why would anyone in the Democratic Party whine about them coming to the RIMPAC?

    • .Hugo.

      how could obama complain, when it was the u.s. to set up an adiz first and right at china’s doorstep?
      .
      chinese reefs were stolen by the rogue states from the 1960s to 1999. clinton knew that too when he read the treaty of paris 1898 to learn the philippine border.

      • muzzleloader

        So I gather that by your repeated term “rogue states”, you mean any nation other than China?
        And when exactly did the US set up an adiz at China’s doorstep?
        Chinese troll, are you?

        • .Hugo.

          any nation other than china which has stolen chinese territory in the south china sea since the mid-20th century is a rogue state.
          .
          the japanese adiz was set up by the u.s. right after ww2, and japan extended it further in 2010.
          .
          good troll excuse when you can’t refute. don’t worry, you are not the first one using the same excuse anyway. 🙂
          .

          • Martian

            china is a rogue state, no one “stole” anything.
            And he Japaneses ADIZ was agreed to by everyone, it is not a US ADIZ

          • .Hugo.

            the rogue state is certainly not china, when only china can provide proper proof of historic ownership of the 4 major island chains in the south china sea.
            .
            the philippines has nothing, and even the treaty of paris has restricted its border at 118 degree east, and the islands it has tried to steal are all out of it.
            .
            vietnam has even come out with a fake chinese map to say china has recognized its claim, when it turned out vietnam has used modern chinese characters on an ancient chinese map. 😛
            .
            the rest did not claim any ownership or invade chinese islands until oil and gas were discovered, and that’s at least 20 years after modern china announced its maritime border.

  • Maria Richter

    Didn’t China offer their peaceful bases on the man made rocks for all to use? If so we should take them up on their offer and station our own people there in addition to what ever they are doing.

    • Martian

      No

    • .Hugo.

      yes, you can sink your ships nearby and cry “may day”, then the chinese coast guard will come and rescue you and your crew will end up in chinese medical facilities on the islands.
      .
      that’s what “for all to use” means.
      .
      don’t tell me the u.s. will open up its territory for every country to use.
      .

  • tiger

    We spend the last century miitarizing everything from San Diego to Yokohama, but we throw stones at China? Please, cry me a river.

    • Martian

      WE? I see from your post history you are Chinese.

      And Yokohama and Sand Diego are artificial islands used to create EEZs? no. please learn the basics my Chinese friend

      • .Hugo.

        eez is an unclos concept, the u.s. has refused to sign on unclos while china has, china enjoys unclos rights to build, not the u.s.

        • Martian

          False. China has agreed in Uclos NOT to build any artificial islands and claim EEZ from them.

          • .Hugo.

            wrong.
            .
            there was no such promise in unclos. to the contrast, unclos has granted its signatories the right to build in their eez. (you have the order wrong, it’s eez first, then construction rights)
            .

  • tiger

    We spy on everyone.

    • DaSaint

      Just about.
      And none of our companies can operate freely in China.

      • tiger

        And if you looked at how foreign nations have treated China for 200 years, it might explain why.

        • Meh. The Chinese consistently treated the rest of the world as lesser beings for thousands of years. If they had been willing to consider the Europeans as equals they would probably be a larger version of Japan right now instead of going through 200 years of disaster (the majority of which, contrary to what they will tell you, was self inflicted).

          • Martian

            China has been backwards since the bronze age — they even had to steal that technology

          • .Hugo.

            backwards since bronze age, while you are still using chinese inventions today. 🙂
            .

          • Martian

            chinise using thousands of western inventions, westerner using two. And the chinese accidentally discovered gun powder — they did not invent it. Recent chemical analysis of late byzantine Greek fire type indicate later types used gun powder forumultions predating china’s accidental discovery.
            We now know loadstone compass was in use in the Mediterranean before its use in China, wood block printing was being done in europe as early as the 7th CE, also 100 years earlier than china.

          • .Hugo.

            thousands of what inventions? care to list them all out?
            .
            and just 2 chinese inventions? no even it’s not true, when your so-called “2” have derived into many applications and are all critical to life?
            .
            written formula to make fire powder first appeared in early 4th century during the east jin dynasty in china, while your beloved byzantine empire took place in the 7th century, that was 300 years late. 🙂
            .
            it was not an accidental discovery either when it was a required process to create a severe fire and with high heat to create the medical pills.
            .
            and you should not mix up loadstone compass with proper printing press of movable type. if you want to talk about wood block printing then you should go back to the han dynasty of the 170 a.d. too. so you are wrong again, europe was late, and it was 800 years late. 🙂
            .

          • .Hugo.

            or if the europeans could consider themselves as equal instead of superior too?
            .
            japan was blasted open by the “black ships” of america.
            .
            and today’s japan relies heavily on chinese products to survive. so why should china look up to japan?
            .

          • The European powers all approached China as equals only for China to slam the door in the faces and act like they were barbarian tributaries. Even after suffering defeat after defeat at the hands of vastly smaller European expeditionary forces China continued trying to pretend that it was the center of the universe and could dictate terms

            If the Europeans had actually been interested in conquering China it would have been easy. But all they wanted was trade, so instead they did their best to prop up the failing Qing regime in the face of numerous and widespread rebellions. Indeed, the European powers did more to modernize and better China than the Chinese government did.

            But after half a century of continuous civil war the Qing finally collapsed, and then the Chinese proceeded to tear their nation to pieces for petty politics and personal gain. After another half century of civil war (during which they would have been conquered by Japan if it weren’t for the Allied Powers). China was finally unified (if you ignore the whole Taiwan issue) only for the CCP to murder tens of millions of it citizens in a failed attempt at modernizing its own way.

            Now China has finally joined the rest of the world because of the generous trade agreements and massive amounts of technology transfer from the West, and it acts self righteous pretending the past 200 years was all the West’s fault and that it made all its advancements on its own.

          • .Hugo.

            how as equal? or do you mean china has no right to “slam the door”? or was it an excuse for the west to exploit china or to sell chinese opium?
            .
            so that’s what you called “equal”, no wonder all of your so-called “equal” treaties signed between china and the west were void after ww2, for reason being UNequal. 🙂
            .
            before ww2 all european powers have set up colony ports and concessions in major chinese cities too. should we consider them as a friendly and non aggressive gesture too? what has europe done FOR FREE to modernize china? was there no solid return? the qing court had paid for them.
            .
            it’s not civil war that brought down the qing court but foreign aggression which caused large scale civil unrest which demanded for a stronger country.
            .
            china fought japan for more than 10 years, and for at leas the first half, china fought alone. your so-called “allied help” was so insignificant and that did not come until very late after the pacific war started. i just don’t know what credit can you take from that.
            .
            the ccp defeated the kmt in 1950, a year after the kmt government retreated taiwan. one reason for the kmt defeat was that it has lost public support completely with the corruption and “white terror” it brought to the society.
            .
            there was never “generous trade agreements”, china negotiated every agreement on terms that the west could accept. no one has forced the west to invest in china if it was not because china has a large, skillful, and cheap (at that time) labour force.
            .
            lastly maybe you are trying to say that it was china’s fault when the west invaded it for the past 200 years? that’s very innovative. 😀
            .

            .

          • China had every “right” to slam the door – but they should have anticipated the European response. Especially since its restrictive trade policies had been causing wars with its neighbors for centuries. But rather than learn from history, the Chinese were so wrapped up in their superiority complex that they kept repeating the same exact mistake right up until they met someone strong enough to make them regret it.

            And don’t act like the trade with China was all a matter of European aggression. The Chinese were quite happy trading tea and silk for European silver. But they got greedy and ran up an unsustainable trade deficit. The Europeans tried to get China to trade equally for European manufactured goods, but China refused. So the Europeans turned to the local Opium market instead (which was already well established by Chinese smugglers).

            The only way in which Europe’s actions caused the numerous Chinese civil wars leading up to the fall of the Qing, was because they demonstrated just how foolish and weak the imperial court was. Odds are the Qing would have collapsed in the 1850’s if it weren’t for extensive European support against the Taiping.

            When China fought alone against Japan, it lost every single battle and had all of its major cities occupied. Face it, if the US hadn’t defeated Japan, China wouldn’t exist today as anything more than Japanese puppet state.

            No generous trade agreements? To this day we continue to tolerate a massive trade imbalance, currency manipulation, and theft of intellectual property. While the Chinese have certainly worked harder than most non-Western nations, the incredible growth was only possible because the Western governments allowed it.

          • .Hugo.

            so when the west asked, china must reply “yes”, otherwise it would anticipate the “consequences”. wow that’s very friendly indeed, haha….

            .

            and good to see you have finally agreed on the europoean aggression. i can always turn your view around too, the west was very happy buying chinese tea and silk, and was even happier to open up the chinese silver market.

            .

            opium was not a result of china refusing to trade, it was a result of pure selfhiness and greed.

            .

            and the qing court was weak and foolish and could not defend the country, that’s why it was toppled and the west has never dared to tough the chinese republic today. you have a good summary there. 😀

            .

            how has china lost every battle, have you counted the major engagements and the outcomes? if japan has really won then why would 600,000 elite troops been locked in the chinese front (and being drained and depleted)? and how has all major cities been occupied when japan could not penetrate the inland and until today it’s where the chinese heavy industries are located?

            .

            let’s fact it, there were no chinese front the u.s. would have not able to advance from the pacific islands and it would face a much tougher resistence in the japanese mainland. the result would be the u.s. would chicken out even earlier and use the a-bomb, haha….

            .

            japan was defeated in 1945, and in 1944 china was already counterattacking. so with or without the u.s. japan would still lose as it simply could not sustain with its small population and weak economy.

            .

            and correct, no generous trade agreements. you massive trade imbalance is caused by the unattractiveness and uncompetitvness of your own goods, fueled by more expensive usd for decades and your attempt to export your own debts by means of quantitive easing. you have messed up the japanese economy, it’s you puppet anyway, but you won’t able to force china to do the same stup!d thing.

            .

            the western governments don’t have to allow it, they simply don’t have to trade with china. let’s see how they can live a more expensive life. no wonder the german chancellor has to visit china right away after being bullied by the u.s. 😛

          • Duane

            The Chinese have always been terrible warriors, paper tigers. The endemic corruption of Chinese society has always been their greatest enemy.

        • DaSaint

          No argument there. And frankly, it’s their country, they can and do set their own rules. It’s up to the companies who want to be there to comply or not bother. It’s not as if China is a capitalistic society. They’re communist run, and each industry is at least partially state-owned, so again, they set their rules.

          The issues become world norms and agreements, but again, no one said our famed industrialists and companies had to set up shop there. No one twisted their arm to do so. They could have chosen the Philippines. They could have chosen Malaysia. They could have chosen Ecuador. They could have chosen Mexico (oh, wait, we did that). They could have chosen Argentina. They could have chosen Jamaica for all I care.

          They could have even chosen NOT to go abroad, and keep manufacturing here instead. How about that as a novel concept?

        • Deploracles Infidelicus

          Ah, yes. More “equivalence”.
          When are you going to make things “right” for Neanderthals?!
          The World wants to know since you’re obviously married to an Aussie aborigine to show just how superior you are to the rest of us plebes.

        • XIcarusX

          Ahem.

          FU CK CHINA

          • tiger

            I hope the Diplomatic Corps is not in your future.

          • XIcarusX

            Why would it be in my future? That’s only for elitist parasites. I can actually make money without depending on the Gov’t for a job or a handout.

        • Martian

          Strawman again?

      • .Hugo.

        they can if they comply with chinese laws. now have they not? 🙂
        .
        by the way, are you trying to tell me chinese firms can operate really “freely” in the u.s. too without the risk of being famed as spying or govt subsidized so to reduce its competitiveness?
        .

        • DaSaint

          Not telling you that at all.

          Sure they comply with Chinese laws. They have to if they want to be there. Yet, all of our companies operating in China have voiced significant concerns about IP theft.

          We – yes, we – put our companies there to take advantage of one thing – cheap labor. And now, years later, we bemoan our IP losses. We look at copy-cat technology and wonder how. Why? But we know why. “Give a man a fish, and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish, and you feed him for a lifetime.”

          Well, get ready for a lifetime of competition.

          IBM sold them the ThinkPad line – now called Lenovo. And it followed from there.

          • .Hugo.

            ibm would not have to sell the thinkpad line to lenovo if it could hold onto it, no?
            .
            as for the other things, tough luck that china is the world’s factory with superb production capabilities, including reverse engineering. when toyota stripped off the entire mercedes sedan and came out with the lexus, can germany complain?
            .

          • DaSaint

            Toyota didn’t reverse engineer the Mercedes. They used the market penetration they already had due to their smaller, lighter more efficient, and less expensive cars, then used the Camry platform (frame) and offered greater amenities for a price point less than a Mercedes.

            So you had a customer base that was already satisfied with their product, who easily upgraded to the next level with the same company.

            That’s not reverse engineering a Mercedes, that’s well thought out market analysis and market penetration.

          • .Hugo.

            toyota bought a few mercedes and study every part of it to create the lexus. and yes, it’s called reverse engineering. you should know there are even more examples especially in the home appliance market.
            .
            price is of course a major factor to open up a new market, so why do you need to repeat that?
            .

    • Deploracles Infidelicus

      Therefore it’s “OK”. I love moral equivalence! /s

      • tiger

        Everybody spies. We even spy on our so called friends.

        • Martian

          Everybody spies. We even spy on our so called friends.

          I see from your post history that you are Chinese. We know china spies on everyone, but I would not say friends — china has no friends or allies wih the exception of the genocidal dictator in N. Korea

          • .Hugo.

            china has no friends? have you counted how many foreign missions are there in the chinese cities? how about all the strategic partnership agreements that china has signed with all major countries and trade bodies? why not put 1 chinese and 1 american on the street in iraq or pakistan to see who will be safer?
            .
            by the way, your “genocidal dictator” is getting so popular after the winter olympics and even your president has to fly all over to asia to meet him. 🙂
            .

          • Martian

            China has no partners except North Korea. And foreign missions? Are you kidding or just uneducated? China had foreign missions to Japan when japan was occupying it! Have a foriegn mission is not a military alliance. the US has over military bases and installations in nearly 100 countries that want to and do work with the US — china has NONE except north Korea

          • .Hugo.

            no partners? why not count how many strategic partnership agreements china has signed with countries all around the world? how about the offshore cny clearing centres? how about the qfii/rqfii agreements?
            .
            and are you kidding instead? japan has never occupied china, it has only tried and failed. 🙂
            .
            have a military alliance is not a “friend” either. friends take care of each other including wellbeing. your “friend” is only threatening everyone to pay up its protection money, hehe….
            .
            and good you mention military bases all around china, no wonder china has to strengthen its defense nowadays, hehe….
            .

  • News Reporter

    Look, all these islanders were anti-American. We got kicked out of the Philippines. We’ve been told we are not welcome at may ports. The ports we are allowed to fuel and stock supplies, those countries do not allow Sailors and Marines to disembark one foot into their country. Let China bomb and invade every one of them. Let those people feel what it is like not to have the US military to defend your pathetic little islander lives.

  • Grintsum

    You miss Obama, don’t you?

  • Grintsum

    Put a little effort into the subject and learn about the Chinese civil war that led to the Nationalist retreat to Taiwan. Hint: the Chinese civil war will not be at an end until either the communists or Nationalists have won.

  • Jimmy Craven

    What about Diego Garcia?

    • Martian

      Diego Garcia has always existed, it is not an artificial creation used to create an new EEZ claim

      • .Hugo.

        but the british kicked all the locals out to lend the island to the u.s.

        • Martian

          Wrong

          • .Hugo.

            prove this wrong then.
            .
            theguardianDOTcom/stage/2012/feb/15/diego-garcia-few-man-fridays
            .
            Stolen island: the shameful story of Diego Garcia hits the stage
            The people of Diego Garcia, a British colony in the Indian Ocean, were thrown off their island to make way for a US military base.

            .
            “In the 1960s, at the height of the cold war, the Harold Wilson government wanted to do a deal with the US, which was looking for a military base in the Indian Ocean in order to monitor Soviet activity. Diego Garcia was perfect. In return for leasing it to them, the British government won a lot of good will from the US and a major financial contribution to its Polaris submarine programme. The displaced Chagossians, raised within a largely barter economy, got nothing. They have a Kreol word for how they feel: sagren – unbearable sadness.”

    • thebard3

      British possession.

  • Martian

    Obama was owned and played by the Chinese.

  • PS

    Once again obama and the democrats bowed to China while they invaded islands and got NOTHING in return.

  • discoverer

    US is using the RAMPAC to look at China’s navy which is otherwise quite secretive. It was the Pentagon that initiated the invitation.

    • Martian

      Because of Taiwan, hong kong, and so many Chinese opposing the communist party after Tianmin, the pres that folloes intelligence issues postulates we have a massive number of human intelligence agents in China. It is also thought we have planted military tech for them to steal which we compromised. Between those and US sigint we likely know everything there is to know.

      • discoverer

        When the existence J 20 was official announced, it took US completely by surprise. The construction of artificial islands also took US by surprise. China is quite good at keeping her secret.

        • .Hugo.

          and also the anti ship supersonic and hypersonic missiles, the rail guns, the laser cannons, the quantum encryption & radars…

      • .Hugo.

        so many chinese? like how many as compared with the entire chinese population?
        .
        and can you spell correctly too? 😀

        • Martian

          China has 2 billion enemies around it.

          • .Hugo.

            2 billion? really where and when have they become chinese suddenly?

  • DaSaint

    Good catch.
    Couldn’t help myself.
    Cheers 716!

  • Grintsum

    The mistake in your scenario of overwhelming Chinese firepower employed against Taiwan assumes that the US will not be engaged in such a conflict. Public support of US military might committed to such a regional war was confirmed by the 2016 election of a strong, pro-American president rather than a calculating, self-aggrandizing woman who went to bed while four of her employees were being murdered in Libya.
    Regarding Obama, there is nothing decent about a man who supports the abortion of innocent children under all circumstances; who actively maneuvered for the legalization of so-called homosexual marriage; who tried to usurp the control of healthcare throughout the entire country; and who is now presently cashing-in from his time in the White House. I could think of several other things to add to this list, but the travesty of Obama’s eight years has just now begun to be exposed.

  • .Hugo.

    how about apple, facebook, and other u.s. firms?

  • patrick

    Does anyone think China really cares? They will simply portray themselves as innocent victims of U.S. hypocrisy and belligerence while continuing to maintain with a straight face that everyone knows that SAMS and ship killer missiles are there just to ensure safety of the Filipino fishing fleet. Meanwhile, does anyone want to bet that China WON’T send ships to spy on RIMPAC?

    • Martian

      They care, their press shows they are obsessed with it.
      And it shows there current behavior, which ALL it neighbors correctly see as threatening, is no longer tolerated.

      • .Hugo.

        really? which press?
        .

        • Martian

          I read the chinese press, it is clear you do not

          • .Hugo.

            so which one just to be sure? have you misread press from the separatists in taiwan instead?

    • .Hugo.

      actually when only allowed to participate in non critical events, china really doesn’t care much.
      .
      and you bet for national security, all uninvited but capable countries will send ships to observe the exercise right outside their doorsteps.
      .

  • Jay

    Trump will change this to keep the Chinese $$$ flowing to the Trump Organization. Guy’s gotta make money.

    • Martian

      Uhm Hilaries foundation is what you mean

      • Jay

        Yeah, did you see that on the news how Hillary was indicted, convicted of accepting bribes, sentenced to life in prison and the Clinton Foundation was shut down? No? Neither did I. How’s that relationship with facts and objective reality you’ve been working on? Seems like you still have a lot of work to do there. You should restrict you comms to other Fox Noise imbeciles.

  • proudrino

    All this means is that China doesn’t get to send a delegation to the big party celebrating the commencement of “the world’s largest international maritime warfare exercise.” China is a longstanding participant in RIMPAC. Invitation or not.

    • Martian

      it shows there current behavior, which ALL it neighbors correctly see as threatening, is no longer tolerated.

      • .Hugo.

        good the neighbors are feeling threatened, it means it’s time to return their chinese loot back to china. 🙂
        .

        • Martian

          Stop crying at losing

          • .Hugo.

            you can tell the rogue states that.

  • muzzleloader

    Duanne is an admitted leftist progressive who also admitted that he voted for Hillary.
    His daily I hate Trump posts here are part of his coping mechanism.

    • Duane

      Youre a bald faced liar dude. I never “admitted” to being either a leftist or a democrat. In fact, just the opposite. In the non -turned upside down world I inhabit, Trump is a guy who was a nearly lifelong Democrat who hated and disparaged Ronald Reagan, and gave large donations to Bill and Hillary Clinton, and who as President sold out his nation to our biggest enemies Russia and China, in return for their necessary help in winning election and winning a Nobel prize.

      In any other era Trump would be called a “traitor”, and so would his supporters.

      If the shoe fits, traitor-supporter, wear it.

      • muzzleloader

        Duanne, you have said that a progressive tax is written in the Constitution, and if that is not progressive I don’t know what is. You also are forever expressing your disdain of conservatives,
        ( right wing nut jobs, etc). The very fact that you consider Trump supporters traitors says it all. Every week on this site you tell everyone how much you hate the president regardless of the subject at hand. I have never heard of Trump disparaging Reagan, and if you haven’t noticed, Trump is governing every bit as conservative as Reagan ever did, who himself was once a Democrat.
        Trump sold out our nation to Russia and China? In what way? In case you haven’t noticed, the whole trump/ Russia/ collusion is a farce.
        John Brenner the admitted communist and Obama CIA director and James Clapper and James Comey have been lying their a$$es off and have been caught doing so.
        The whole affair is a fabricated witch hunt that is crashing down around thier ears, and it is evident the entire affair was an elaborate hoax designed to bring down a lawfully elected president.
        If you would step out of the talking points for a while and see what is really going on in our country, you might see that Trump is kicking butt.
        Is he perfect? No he is not, but he was not elected because he was or is.
        He was elected because enough Americans have had enough of professional politicians and the unholy mess they made. Americans were ready to bring in an outsider for a change, and the fact that Trump is not of the official ruling class is why he is hated. He doesn’t talk like a politico, he talks like the fighter that he is.
        I realize that all this probably won’t phase you one bit,, but whatever.

        • Donald Carey

          Faze, not phase*
          *free English lesson.

          • muzzleloader

            Thank you

          • Martian

            Must be upsetting to ‘duane” to see the large increases in Us economic performance, job creation and reduction of trade deficit trends in the Trump economy. AS well as even if it comes to nothing the first movement on Korea, which even if if N,. Korea walks out shows how trump is hurting our enemies.

        • Duane

          You’ve drunk the Trumpian koolaid, and you are literally drunk on it. He is a traitor to his nation. And he is a fool to boot.

          • muzzleloader

            Drunk? lol. Tell you what, you go ahead and tell yourself that the 30 states and sixty three million americans who voted for him are drunk if that makes you feel better. Meanwhile, Trump will go on being president, and we will continue to appreciate what he is doing, and trying to do. Have a nice weekend.

  • Kim Chul Soo

    As enemies of the U.S., China should have never been invited in the first place.

    • proudrino

      Enemy is too strong a word. We are not there yet but it certainly does not make sense in inviting them to RIMPAC.

  • Grintsum

    I understand that you apparently have no idea how a large scale military operation is conducted. You seem to think a regional war over Taiwan can be initiated whenever Xi snaps his finger. There are things called ‘indicators’ that gives a heads-up on impending military action which enables preemptive action by the US. Taiwan will not be fighting the PLA alone. The US will be in the region in strength before the Chinese launch their first rocket or load their first wave of amphibious troops. The only way China can seize Taiwan is if the US stands down. Since we do not have a weak president like Obama or either of the Clintons, then the Taiwanese can rely upon the friendship of America to keep the chicom’s at bay. That probably makes you sad, but just deal with it.

  • Grintsum

    I really hope you never worked on any OPLAN that dealt with the defense of Taiwan, because undoubtedly any Courses of Action you drafted would most likely have included immediately waving the white flag.

  • j James

    What China is doing in the SCS is not that much different than what we (US) did at the turn of the 20th century in the carribean.

    I don’t like it, but no one does.

    • Martian

      False. US did not create artificial islands if it had, since we had the resources we would own all of the Caribbean today along with half the Atlantic and pacific.

      And Us was acting within norms of the time, china is not acting with contemporary norms, it is in direct violation of basic law of the sea.

      • j James

        Not false. Take care

      • .Hugo.

        the u.s. did not sign on unclos too, and unclos has given china the right to build in its eez, and that includes artificial islands.
        .
        and wrong, china is only not acting with u.s. norms.
        .
        what basic law of the sea are you referring to?
        .

  • Grintsum

    I apologize for the disrespectful snarkiness of my last response. I don’t know you, and I certainly don’t have any right to make such disparaging remarks to you.

  • Martian

    We have more business there there as china has. We are a +50 year statutory ally of a democracy in a fully defensive position facing an offensively postured murderous dictatorship.

  • Martian

    Tiger aka 716, the Chinese navy is not projected to be twice the size of our navy. They will be behind us for at least 100 years and Japan, korea, Philippines, India are all expected to increase their navies. China will NEVER be more than 25% of the naval and air forces in the region.

    And in the chinese press one can see they ARE obsessed with this US decision. Vietnam also disinvited them from an exercise after.

  • Martian

    1.1 billion chinamen will be actually fighting?

  • Ed L

    The Chinese are ignoring any treaty’s prior to the interference of western powers. They want all of Asia. In particularly The Philippines, Japan, Indonesia and possibly Australia. Remember a Chinese fleet arrived on the pacific shores of America long before Columbus showed up. If the Chinese had found the gold fields we be singing a different tune. Now a days A dangerous Middle Kingdom mindset has returned and prevails among the Chinese government. Chinese people commonly believe they are superior to those of darker skin. The attitude towards whites, is much more complex. They tend to acknowledge the historical achievements of the west, but at the same time resent western hegemony and despise aspects of western culture, many believing that at some point in the future the innate virtue of Chinese civilisation will again assert itself. The Chinese thus tend to display a combination of respect and envy, superiority and inferiority, towards western culture.

    • .Hugo.

      hmm….. which treaty has china ignored?
      .
      how will china want all of asia? is that not the u.s. has tried to do in another way after ww2?
      .
      what material are you based on with your statement that the chinese fleet arrived the american shore first?
      .
      chinese did not come up with the name “n!gger” to refer to black people or to start/participate in trading them as slaves either.
      .
      chinese learn from the good part of the western culture just like the west learns from the east. by saying “respect and envy, etc” i can see white supremacy all over the phrase….. 🙂
      .