Home » Aviation » UPDATED: Navy Eliminating 241-Year-Old Rating System in New Enlisted Rank Overhaul

UPDATED: Navy Eliminating 241-Year-Old Rating System in New Enlisted Rank Overhaul

Five sailors in 2006. US Navy Photo

Five sailors in 2006. US Navy Photo

This post has been updated with additional information from Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson.

After more than 200 years, the Navy is making a fundamental change in how it will address its enlisted sailors, according to a notification on the new policy obtained by USNI News.

Starting today, the service will shelve the rating system it adopted from the U.K. Royal Navy, stop referring to sailors by their job titles and adopt a job classification in line with the Army, Marine Corps and the Air Force.

For example, under the new rules The Hunt for Red October character Sonar Technician Second Class Ronald “Jonesy” Jones – ST2 Jones for short – would be Petty Officer Second Class Jones or Petty Officer Jones. Machinist’s Mate First Class Jake Holman – MM1 Holman– from the novel and film The Sand Pebbles would be Petty Officer First Class Holman or Petty Officer Holman.

The change comes as Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus has pushed the Department of the Navy to create gender-neutral titles for positions like rifleman and motorman.

Mabus’ request – examining how changing ratings like Yeoman, Legalman and Damage Controlman could better reflect the diversity of the service – was the genesis of the new policy, Chief of Naval Operations Adm. John Richardson said during a Thursday all-hands call explaining the changes.

The initial question was, “do [the ratings] capture that inclusivity with the respect to diversity,” Richardson said.

During the review, the team — led by recently retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Steven — “saw an opportunity that went beyond the initial tasking,” Richardson said.

Now with the change, a sailor’s skills and primary job will be cataloged in their personnel record via a Navy Occupational Specialty code similar to the Military Occupational Specialty, used by the Army and Marines, and the Air Force Specialty Codes system. (Petty Officer Jones’ NOS code would be C230 while Petty Officer Holman’s code would be B130).

For lower pay grades E-1 to E-3, ‘”there will no longer be a distinction between ‘Airman, Fireman and Seaman’,” reads a statement from the service.
“They will all be, ‘Seaman’.”

Senior enlisted ranks E-7 to E-9 will still be referred to as Chief, Senior Chief and Master Chief respectively.

The Navy said the change would allow more flexibility in the enlisted promotion and job assignments.

Arating badge, worn by a newly minted Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class in 2006. Enlisted sailors are classified by their unique rates with their jobs worn on their sleeves. US Navy photo

A rating badge, worn by a newly minted Mass Communication Specialist 1st Class in 2006. Enlisted sailors are classified by their unique rates with their jobs worn on their sleeves. US Navy photo

“Sailors may hold more than one NOS, which will give them a broader range of professional experience and expertise opportunities,” reads a statement from the service provided to USNI News.

The codes “will be grouped under career fields that will enable flexibility to move between occupational specialties within the fields and will be tied to training and qualifications.”

A spokesman for the Chief of Navy Personnel told USNI News the move to shed the rating system was part of a review that began in June.

The goal was to “develop a new approach to enlisted ratings that would provide greater detailing flexibility, training and credentialing opportunities, and ultimately translate Navy occupations more clearly to the American public,” Cmdr. Jason Schofield, a spokesman for the Chief of Naval Personnel, told USNI News.
“We believe that modernizing all rating titles for sailors and establishing a new classification system is the first step of a multi-phased approach to do just that. This transformation will occur in phases over a multi-year period.”

The Navy’s enlisted classification system was arguably the most dense and difficult to understand of the U.S. services and was rooted in the traditions of the Royal Navy of the 18th century. In both navies it was rare for a sailor to change ships, and knowing what job a sailor performed aboard was the most important identifier.

However, the ratings system became more complicated as the pace of technology quickened, creating churn in the jobs in the service.

Ratings would be created, merge and become obsolete sometimes in the span of only a few years.

In addition to clarifying jobs for the wider public, the service said it would also pair with other moves to ease the transition to into civilian life.

“Our intent in making this change is to transform our personnel business processes so that we maximize career flexibility, while arming our sailors with superior training and widely recognized credentials that will convey to the civilian workforce,” reads the statement.

  • draeger24

    the destruction of the Navy is moving along nicely from the political hack SECNAV….

  • Geezer

    Wait, they are still going to call folks SeaMAN? I thought Secretary Maybus was hellbent on making them SeaPERSONS or something like that.

    • Jim

      Guess we’re lucky he didn’t demand they be called sea-ponies of some other horseshi#

    • MLepay

      saw this in another article; While the review began with an eye to gender neutrality, the ranks of “seaman” in the Navy and “midshipman” at the Naval Academy will stay, Schofield said. The terms were allowed to remain, he said, because they are ranks, not job titles.

      • Michelle Wheeler

        job titles had nothing to do with gender… Are the freaking nuts…. It makes no sense!

    • Bob Washburn

      Hopefully when Trump becomes president, he can replace SECNAV Mabus with a less PC secretary.

      • Wiliam Deitrick

        Hopefully not one of “those” like the SecArmy.

    • Donnie Bowerman

      Nope, can’t say SON. They would be Seapers!!!

    • kilna

      Um, perhaps “Sailor”?

    • old guy

      C’MON. Univ of Michigan has come up with 12 different classifications of “persons”. I would add, CONFUSED.

  • Steven H

    I really hope the Coast Guard doesn’t follow suit.

    • Ed L

      They already do their Boatswains Mates do the job of a quartermaster and a signalman

      • draeger24

        nothing wrong with cross-training….in my OCS class, we had BM teaching Mo-Board and Navigation….try being on a Patrol Coastal…you might be doing BM work one minute, then firing a 25mm Bushmaster, then launching RHIBS…

        • CPO KEITH (Ret)

          Sandy, I retired in 1976. What is RHIBS? Rank has it’s ?????

          • Rudder

            Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat.

          • draeger24

            Rigid Hull Inflatable Boat – they are the standard now for each ship. They originated back in ’88 when air squadrons were using them, and SPECWAR adopted them and they are also the SPECWAR standard at 33′. GOD Bless, Chief!

      • Steven H

        But they still have a rate. The Coast Guard has always had fewer rates doing a somewhat wider range of work, but we still had a rate.

    • Old Coasty

      It will. Part of the Coast Guard Charter states that we must be compatible to the Navy System for Transfer Under the Navy during Time of War or by Presidential Decree. Same with the other two “Uniformed Services” Public Health Doctors and Nurses are Officers (I think their CNA’s and Technicians are transferred as Enlisted), and the NOA Officers are Reserve Officers in the Navy.

      So, the Marine Corps, The Coast Guard, and Public Health Service all have a single 4 Star Flag Officer, called Commandant, Commandant, and Surgeon General. (Can’t allow those pesky step children to have too much power!) And the poor NOA officers do not get and representation due to their already being Naval Reserve Officers. (What as shame, they bring such specialized expertise like the other three services, but do not get any representation.)

  • Bill_Fan

    Why? This is bunk!

  • Henry Harmison

    This sucks bilgewater! Another tradition down the tubes!

    • Henry Harmison

      So what am I now? I was a Quartermaster. Am I now a 0.25 person?

  • retsubcpo

    Why don’t we just us the new correct term. PC 1st class or PCCPO or PCMCPO. One more move in the liberal wussufication of the military. It irks them to no end that we vote Republican at nearly 3 to 1.

  • Ed L

    Interesting so when I was a boatswain mate and then became an intelligence specialist with 2 nec’s I would be address as petty officer and what are you MOS’s. But I was still a division 3M. And assign duties on a ship the require personnel with multiple MOS’s. Instead of getting stuck taking care of a bunch officers. Now my daughter in the army she was a 91L then became a 25B. Makes sense When I worked at the fosic. The IS’s that were EN, BM, AD, YN and SW qualified etc and fleet experience usually were called upon for their opinions

    • FireBaron

      In my case I was a 3326 NavAids tech with secondary NECs as Canvassing Recruiter and Shipboard Career Counselor, and qualified for all watches in a Poseidon Nav Center. However I was also qualified QMOW,Duty QM, Aux Electrician Forward, Forward Machinist and COW. So what does that make me? An overqualified Fire Alarm tech.

    • Aaron Norton

      The Navy never had MOS’s and after 20+ years of doing this now, I have only ever been asked what my MOS was by other services. 91L and 25B tells me nothing about what the member does, however, Electrician’s Mate tells me that they have, at the minimum, some electrical knowledge. This idea of better translation does not translate well.

  • MLepay

    Guess I don’t understand the what at times seems to be total resistance to change on these forums. This just makes what was already happening more official. Example; I don’t recall referring to my Engineman friends as EM2 Smith or something like that, it was go see Petty Officer Smith in E2 Division. GSMC Jones was Chief Jones or just Chief. Even back in my Dad’s day I don’t recall that many people referring to someone by their Rating unless it was in describing their job for someone.

    • balcobomber25

      I just recently got out and the only times you were called Petty Officer was either in boot camp or when you did something wrong other than that it was always AT1, YN2, AE3 etc.

      • Rexford L

        Exactly.. everyone called me FC1, only other branches would call me Petty Officer…

        • Bill

          We used to call each other by our last names. When I made Chief, my first name and last were the same anyway….Chief

    • Ret-Navy

      For the most part I with disagree with that observation when I was in 1985-2005 (not saying you didn’t have it, or don’t remember it correctly but). If you knew the person, or they were wearing their whites or blues on watch, you would hear them addressed by MM3, JO1, QM1, OS2, etc. If they were in dungarees and you didn’t know them from Adam (and they weren’t wearing their ballcap with a stencil on the back panel), then you might call them Petty Officer (looking at their stenciled name) Smith or Seaman Jones, etc.

      • MLepay

        I was in 84-94 and I am confident I remember correctly. Different commands, different people handled it different ways I am sure. Either way I can’t see a huge problem with what they are doing.

        • Ret-Navy

          Roger that shipmate! I see it as a developing morale problem – lost identity – lost specialties – lost traditions – then lost pride in their service … and it keeps going on & on until planned obsolescence sets in and goes away following the fate of the Edsel.

      • vabeachguy79

        Just wait until the word is passed on 1MC “Petty Officer Smith, Quarterdeck”. And then five Petty Officer Smiths show up on the quarterdeck. Can’t make this stuff up!!

        • Ret-Navy

          PO1 Smith, E Division, Quarterdeck – you can always send the MOOW down to fetch him/her if that fails! There could be two or three smiths in a department, hopefully only one per division!

  • Michael Brand

    I hope and pray this can be fixed in January.

    • John Locke

      How does this change affect you?

      • Rexford L

        It’s called “tradition”.. that’s how it effects him.

      • Michelle Wheeler

        my son CTM is in the Navy I’m retired CTO/IT… what does rate have to do with gender…..

      • jminsandiego

        It angers me. Anger is a distraction from whatever else I m expected to be doing.

        Think about times when you were particularly infuriated about something. You couldn’t get it out of your thoughts.

        That’s your answer.

  • RetroRich

    If the ultimate goal was to remove gender biased, then how can you say with a straight face; now, we are going to call everyone E1 thru E3 “Seaman”? It doesn’t make sense…

  • John Locke

    It wouldn’t surprise me if in the next decade or so the services will all wear the same uniform

    • draeger24

      be on your way, TROLL

      • Refguy

        What do think the digital cammies were if not a attempt to look like the other services?

        • draeger24

          it was a stupid and wasteful use of resources which we can’t afford.

  • Jim Jacobs

    It sucks. Navy AK3. Where is tradition going?

    • George

      Tradition has gone out the window in these last years. It’s more about not offending someone.

  • Ed L

    When I was a BM I had only 3 guys from deck dept to help run the refueling rig. But I had an MM and EN on the winches and a YN and RM on the phones and the signlal paddles

  • Capt DJ

    So how does dumbing down the rating system promote gender equality?

    • Teri

      Especially when they are keeping Seaman and Midshipman! I could care less that I was called a Corpsman, as a matter of a fact, I am PROUD to be called one!

  • Ed L

    Petty Officers need the following MOS’s to step forward. Deck, small boats, engines, electrical medical. It will work with open minds. No more stupid fleet exams I met quite a few who were book smart but unable to perform the require PMS on fire station And those that really did the work get passed by for jerks who lead by fear

    • Bill

      If it ain’t broke don’t fix it

      • JustWhisL

        But…that’s not the “new” Navy way. It’s “fix it until it’s broke”.

      • Ed L

        When given the rank of Petty Officer they need to learn how to and be able to lead, not hide behind a rating. Command, squadron, group Non commission officer training schools need to be set up. I use to do leadership training and in role playing I would be the guy who wanted to skate, go Hide,, act sick. Etc. a lot of petty officers didn’t know what to do with a guy like that.

    • jetcal1

      I agree it will workwithl some work. My question is if you had shipmates that couldn’t do the PMS/3M thing did you did you do some one on one OJT with them? Were you wearing a crow?

  • Chuck Rose

    I guess that NCIS episode about the Corpsman who rendered aid to accident victims…and then was charged because her rating didn’t qualify her as an EMT…finally sunk in.

    Besides, I was a Sub Nuke MM when there wasn’t a specialized rating, but got thrown in with the rest of the fleet during testing and advancement…then went EOD after my EAOS…and again, being an MM had nothing to do with that, until they changed that NEC too!

    • Robert Gillaspie

      Most of the ET’s in navigation on the nuke subs had the same situation. I never worked one day on the equipment I learned in “A” school. But I still had to compete with the surface fleet ET’s who did. Now, I don’t think the Navy will have BM’s competing with ET’s that would make no sense at all. I couldn’t tie a monkey fist and they couldn’t fix the radars. In the old Navy we would call this a “cluster fuck”. I am hoping this all unwinds before any implementation.

  • DazedAndConfused

    “the change would allow more flexibility in the enlisted promotion” So now you’re not just competing with those in your rate to advance, you’re competing with everyone in the NAVY.

    • Rudder

      I wasn’t Navy; I was first Army and then Coast Guard. If I understand what they’re doing, this won’t be so bad. There are benefits to both systems. I know several great POs who would have made great chiefs had they been able to advance; They were stuck in a system where their rate had too many people above them. I also know at least one “rate grabber” chief who wasn’t in my opinion ready to lead at that level, but his rate needed chiefs so he made it up the ladder. If he wanted to go warrant, I’m sure he’d have made it with no sweat. Competing servicewide AND in keeping with your rate allows really good people to advance and fill a spot related to their existing rate based on qualification.

    • USNVO

      Not necessarily. clearly the devil is in the details and none of those have been provided. That line could mean that anyone can do anything and competes with everyone, but that is unlikely. It certainly doesn’t work that way in the Army, Marines, or Air Force. It could just as easily mean that you can further subdivide a specialty area to promote the people with the specialty that is needed. For instance, AEGIS FCs might get advanced at a higher rate than CIWS FCs if there is a greater need. It could be anything from business as usual but your rate is now like your NEC or something way more radical but my guess, at least initially, is it will have minimal impact except to the pour people back at Millington changing signs and name tags.

    • Charles Hart

      Great logic… Then every E-9 will be a boatswain mate.

  • airider

    Only way to tell the sailors rate today is when they have their whites or blues on. None of the working uniforms show rate information….the big questions are how this really might affect promotion and job flexibility.

  • lmillert

    Jack of All Trades, Master of None

  • Gruntyginman

    Old man who yells at clouds and lives on a different planet, got it shippie.


    One Good Deal After Another.
    But it is National Coffee Day
    More Coffee…

  • Dan Baron

    As a former Corpsman I find this stupid. The Navy has always been in favor of cross training. I was on the flight line working on my ambulance when an Air Force medic asked what I was doing, I replied fixing my ambulance. He said if I did that I would be in trouble. I responded in the Navy if you can do it you do. If a ship takes a hit and wipes out the QMs and you can do it you do. Cross training is to the Navy’s best interest. When at sea you can’t just get personnel on a moments notice. Cross trained Sailors can save the day. However I was proud of my Caduceus on my sleeve. I’m sure other Sailors are proud of their rating as well. I was offered E6 to go back in and teach Diesel Mechanics. After I got out I taught mechanics for 33 years. Not only can I fix vehicles, I have worked on motorcycles, boats, aircraft, worked as an electrician, done plumbing, taught electronics, hold a Private Pilots Licence, and done a number of other jobs including Armed Security. I even held a secret clearance. In my opinion I think it’s stupid to mess with what has worked for close to 200 years.

    • Teri

      I was a CoprsMAN with the Seabees in Iraq…You better bet I was right there next to them building stuff for the Marines!!!

      • Phyllis Gilchrist

        As a retired female Hospital Corpsman, I can say that I have NO problem with the “Man” at the end of my rate. Loosing the rating system is one of the worst ideas I’ve heard from Navy Brass and I’ve heard some doozies. I was a 0000, 8483 and 9588 during my active duty time. How many people can you say that to and have them understand anything you said? However, if I said I was a Hospital Corpsman, Surgical Technician, and then became a Command Career Counselor, wouldn’t that make mores sense?
        Don’t take away our rates, don’t try to take away our traditions, don’t think you’ll take away our history. I am an HM and always will be an HM. If I offend you, then as a sailor I’m sure you’ll suck it up and get over it soon enough.

        • old guy

          Ah, a light within the darkness. If this keeps up PC will insist on CHAIRMAMMAL. (although, I’ve known a couple of reptiles in my life.)

    • Steve Skubinna

      Huge difference in attitudes between the USMC/Navy and the USA/USAF. In the former, if it isn’t prohibited you may do it, in the latter, if it isn’t permitted you may not.

      Or that’s the way it was twenty years ago.

    • Rhonda

      I was a HM too. This really breaks my heart. From day one, it was drilled into my head that as HMs we are held to higher standards, be proud to be an HM and we are the ONLY enlisted corps in the Navy. Is our HM Birthday going to be of no more as well?

    • jminsandiego

      Ray Maybus apparently is one of those people who “wants to leave his mark” on the organization.

      That would be okay if his mark were regarded other than as a sh*t-stain.

    • Jim


    • Jack Kenton

      Total stupidity from the “top dogs”. As officers we were to control our tempers, but this gets me mad. Because the word “man” appears in a rating, we are totally destroying the U.S. Navy that we all knew. First we put the sailors in Mussolini-like brown-shirt uniforms, add “cammies” and now we destroy who we were.

  • David Holland

    Personally I dont care what they do as I am not in the Navy. But if they are making the changes in the name of diversity, then it is stupid

  • Vincent Del Signore

    It is sad to see our current crop of admirals think they are smarter that 200 years of leadership that preceded them. They cow towed to a bunch of one enlistment, whining millenals. Congratulations on makinging the navy more like the army. What a high Bar to set…

  • chuckberlemann

    Another line of PC Bull Stuff for Trump to fix after Inauguration Day.

  • Billy

    That’s what happens when a bunch of E-9s in the so called “Leadership
    Mess” put their careers above service. They should have all retired
    before pushing this abomination through.

  • Bob Washburn

    Speaking as a former USN sailor and current museum ship work coordinator, with over ten years bringing Navy Prep students to our ships as volunteer renovation workers, I am in regular contact with the NAPS command in Newport RI.
    It makes good sense for the midshipman candidates to address a Navy enlisted leader as Petty Officer Jones, rather than BU2 Jones.

    • Michelle Wheeler

      They were doing that anyways…. the only time someone called me by my rate was when I was working in my area…. No one in the Navy new all the rates and their symbols… It was only on documents…

      • Charles Hart

        I knew them.

  • Timothy Monahan

    240 years it was fine why do they think it needs to change now???????????!!!!!!!!!!

    • Rudder

      I’m sure people said the same when they went from sails to coal, and then to steam.

      • Charles Hart

        In no way a valid comparison… But cute, I guess.

  • Michael


  • Charles Hart

    Sad… We will all soon be one service apparently.
    Being able to read one’s rate AND their rank gives the “reader” an instant indication of their expertise AND their level of expertise. The system that is / was in place wasn’t the least bit confusing to those of us actually IN the Navy.
    Navy leadership needs to ask the greater Navy before instituting inane policies passed down from politicians and rubber-stamped by O-10s and E-9s jockeying for political power themselves.

  • Brion Boyles

    An admin nightmare for lower ranks and those trying to put together work parties and details….So they say the current rating system is sooo confusing? Tell me….what does a Petty Officer Third Class with an MOS of 2213 do, exactly? So, we need to man the ready lifeboat….can we do that with a 3105, a couple of 5513’s, a 4111 and a 7313. Whoops…we’re missing a 2505. OR…..do we have an Engineman, two Bosun’s Mates, a Signalman and a Corpsman. Whoops…forgot the A’hole that all this offends and confuses. Obsolescence? Sure…but for “diversity” and “inclusivity”? This sort of thing reflects a disdain for tradition, heritage, pride and technical familiarity…(in a word, laziness). This is the sort of “discomfort” that arises from people who can’t wrap their heads around terms like “bow” or “stern”, “list” or “capsize”. They use words like “front” and “rear”, “tilting” and “flip” because the former requires a broadened vocabulary and a genuine appreciation for the uniqueness of our Naval traditions…..

    • hatinontruth

      About 10 years ago senior brass leadership tried to write themselves into the history books by trying to mandate that E-6 have an associates degree to promote to chief.. then the chief ranks would require a bachelors. This ended up not sticking around long and that guy has been forgotten. Alas, the brass in this particular case will be remembered for the next two generations minimum as the one who forsake a tradition over 241 years old, a tradition that wasn’t broken. Very sad..

      • Michki067

        On a two-week active duty period I was sent to the Kiska (it was then a Navy ship, not a USNS ship). When my two weeks were up I was taken to the airport in the duty van with five women being sent to the mainland due to pregnancy (we were in Hawaii at the time). Another time, on board Flint, a drunk woman came staggering into male berthing and got into her boyfriend’s rack (he was not there at the time). Several guys went over, gently took her by the arms and guided her to the door and sent her on her way. No one complained or turned her in to the MA; they just forgot the whole thing. Can you imagine if a drunk male wandered into female berthing and did that? On another ship a female JG div. officer was having a well-known affair with an enlisted man. I’ve been out of the reserve for fifteen years so I don’t know how it is now, but women in the Navy was a disaster in the early days.

        • Hugh

          Women should (deservedly) be respected and protected, and never placed in the front lines unless as a last resort. Could you imagine women fighting in the north Pacific 1942-45?!?

          • Richard Sperry

            Ask ISIS how they feel about Female Kurdish Peshmerga’s. THey run… Imagine their shame at being killed by a woman.

            Ok, that said… as a MM1(SS),Submarine qualified, Nuclear trained, Machinist Mate, NEC 3366, this idea is total bull puckey….

          • medic5392

            Sigh…Richard…they are mostly there for PR. That is why the news covers them so much..not because they are great at their job, but because they are great news.

          • RickRavenRumey

            Non Nuke MM’s stole my Rating!

            TM2(SS/DV) RRR

          • roendale

            “Ask ISIS how they feel about Female Kurdish” – looks like another naive soul bought into media hype. female kurdish is nothing special other than media hype because it happens to fit the current PC narrative. most of the grunt is handled by the guys who are dying daily and the media doesn’t give a damn. you look up the pictures and you see the same few well shot beautiful faces over and over. this news are covered so much because they sell well.

          • Sailor007

            I refer you to the Russian Army of the period…
            Women Pilots, Women Soldiers… They did quite well…

          • Russell Caranfa

            They were also raped quite frequently by their own men on the lines…fact not fiction. In some cases they were even moved around units, and…well you get the jest. Also, they never were given promotions unless it was for propaganda reasons.

            They DID NOT do quite well…learn the facts before repeat the “PC” announcers about Russian women in the war. After all, they too understand, propaganda.

          • rrangel

            They were quite desperate. That’s not the case with the US.

          • patriot196

            We also had female pilots during WW2…Wasp’s. But women do not belong in frontline combat…remember Jessica Lynch…who was in Desert Storm? She was captured and they sent in a special forces team to rescue her. So, you risk the lives of a special forces team to go get her, but not the male helicopter pilots? Why? Because she was a female who was a prisoner of war and she was getting raped.(she admitted that)….which is the biggest reason among others why females in combat does not and will not work and they (PC crowd and female brass at the Pentagon) had to hide it. Also, let alone the pregnancies, and the fact that the marines did a year long study and found that integrated units are much less effective than all male units. If an integrated unit is weaker and less effective then guess what an all female unit would be like against china, Russia…etc? If an all female unit would be even less effective than an integrated unit and cannot win in combat….we just found our answer….keep the military PC FREE. There is also a reason why they do not compete on the same athletic fields as men…..and we want to send them into combat, that yes, it can, does, and will include hand to hand combat. Stupidity.

          • Joe Kinge

            We are Americans. We protect our women and children. We do not send them into combat. Only some high-up jerk thinks otherwise!

          • Mike

            Then y do they deserve equal rights and equal pay without equal risk and equal duty

        • Nat

          I slept with a friend. She was married to one man while living with her “boyfriend” we got drunk and did our business. I just got out of the Naval brig 6 months ago after serving 3 and a half years. All because she didn’t want to be known as “that girl.”

          THANK YOU NAVY.

          • Demosthenes Locke

            Maybe you shouldn’t “do your business” with someone’s wife. No sympathy for you whatsoever, you shat in your rack and then you had to sleep in it. WTF does your story have to do with the ratings issue anyways?

          • Cory

            So are you saying she had you charged with rape, or sexual assault, or were you charged for adultery? Based on the the “she didn’t want to be known as ‘that girl'” comment I was assuming one of the first two, but the last one is certainly an option the Navy could have used whether she brought a complaint or not.

        • nobamunism

          The unemployable and the undeployable…..today’s military.

      • Infin1x

        Most of the “reasons” quoted for this change are easily refuted because they are largely asinine. The one that sticks for me the most is when they say it will bring us more in line with the rest of the services. I have a proposal that will accomplish that:

        Let’s redo the officer ranks to put them in line with the other services. “Sorry admiral you are now a general . No sir, you aren’t a Captain, that’s O-3. You’re a Colonel.”

        If they think nothing of taking my professional identity from me let’s see how they like it.

        • Mike

          Way back in 1971 was working on the pediatric unit at NH Guam when this officer wearing khaki’s walked onto the unit. He had birds on his collar so I said “can I help you captain?”. His response was “I AM NOT A CAPTAIN! I AM A COLONEL!” I quickly apologized and explained I thought he was a naval officer.

      • Sons of Liberty

        It will be one of a lo list of things none good Mabus will be remembered. Can’t believe he still SecNav.

        • Jim

          With Obama in charge, we’re lucky not to have many more just like him!

          • Mike

            You know the Sec. of Defense likes boys so that gives you an idea of what numb nuts thinks about the military.

    • Rob, Portland

      Veterans have spent decades railing about the cancer of political correctness for decades. It’s time to convert that ANGER to ACTIVISM. We need a visible organization dedicated to overturning the destructive policies of the past few decades.

      • Charles Hart

        Let us know the name of organization you’ve set up…

        • Rob, Portland

          Friends of the Old Breed would be my thought.

      • muzzleloader

        If trump gets in, we can hopefully get this PC BS rescinded.

        • Sons of Liberty

          Not happening. Need someone that can get elected and is ractional

          • jwells

            I’m posting this 2 april 2018. How does your crow taste?

        • Kevin A. Tarrant

          Don’t hold your breath. No change that and do hold your breath waiting on President Trump. Start thinning out the gene pool

          • Berb


      • draeger24


      • Michael D. Woods

        Actually, we have such an organization. It’s the Military Officers’ Association. But their focus is on benefits for retirees as much as anything else and it’s dominated by flag officers. They’re effective on whatever they go after, though.

        • Rob, Portland

          Where are they in fighting back against the cancer of political correctness? God knows we need the generals and flags to speak out.

          • Sons of Liberty

            The generals and flags that speak out are tossed out. Just look at what the NSC did to General Mattis.

      • Mike Wickline

        Double AMEN!!

      • Sons of Liberty

        We need an Ike type to step forward and get elected. Non political no nonsense leader in the WH.

      • Toby L. Short (Army-ret)

        I’m a 20 year E7 retiree of the Army. My sole assignment with the Navy was in 1969-70 in Da Nang, Vietnam with the Naval Support Activity Hospital. I was an interrogator who worked the POW ward with a couple of Marines. So, it’s hard for me to appreciate Naval traditions. However, it is not at all difficult for me to understand your anger and your desire for an organization we can use to address our anger. May I offer a solution. I find the only responsible course to be a Convention of States. It will certainly not be easy, but neither was the Revolutionary War, or going from the Articles of Confederation to the US Constitution. Is the current generation any less capable than the men who drafted our constitution?? I THINK NOT!! We are just as capable, and we have the legacy of their wisdom to guide the convention. I fear if we fail to act we doom our grandchildren to servitude.

        • Finian

          A convention of the states will never happen. During the Revolutionary war, there was a readily identified enemy. With the size and diverse population of the US today, that would be almost impossible. The enemy could be, he’s a democrat, he’s a Republican, he’s a Christian, he’s a Muslim, he’s pro-life, he’s pro-babydeath, he calls girls who have passed puberty “girls”, he’s a Mexican, he’s a homosexual. Ridiculous? Of course.

          In 1775, there weren’t 330 million people. The left has successfully sliced and diced the nation into scatter beans. Unification, or even cooperation is a wet dream.

        • Jim

          Great post, Toby! …………De Oppresso Liber!! (my old unit motto).

        • RickRavenRumey

          I share your thoughts. Too bad 90% of the population would live under a dictatorship than go through all that trouble of changing things. I’m being sarcastic. Good Post.

    • Sailor007

      The current system isn’t confusing, it’s just not politically correct, there was no need to fix something that wasn’t broken except to fulfill some crusaders “check-in-the-box”.

      • Michael D. Woods

        You got that right. Mabus is one of the worst since McNamara, though for different reasons. At least McNamara tried to improve operations but was wrong. Mabus doesn’t care about operations, just politics. But look at who appointed him–Obama who has no idea about naval or military affairs and was elected by the numerous voters who just want free stuff at someone else’s expense. The early days of the republic had it right: to vote a person had to have a stake in the form of property or having paid taxes.

        • Stitch Mainville

          I believe we should have gone one step further and stated that one had to have military service time in order to take the office of Commander-In-Chief. As it stands now, any POG can be POTUS and any welfare-check cashing, crack-smoking, Unemployed idiot can vote. It’s sickening!

      • A WOG in Roy

        But you still have Seamen. AF still has Airmen. Funny how the 5-8% of the population wields so much power.

        • A WOG in Roy


      • RonKeffer

        I am sick of politically correct

    • John Locke

      So you’re saying Sailors aren’t as smart as folks in the other services who go by MOS’s.

      • Brion Boyles

        No…not as DUMB as other services (not the folks in them). Ask any Air Force vet what he did…he will not give you an MOS…He will say “Aircraft refueler”…”armorer”…Avionics Technician”…Ask the same of an Army vet or Marine. Anyone on the street should know what a “tank gunner” or “Military Policeman” is…They won’t just spit out an MOS (unless it’s to others in their branch). They know that MOS numbers are gibberish. If whomever they are talking to doesn’t know what a “turret gunner”, “artilleryman” or “parachute rigger” is, that’s the stupidity of whomever they are talking to….

    • WestCoastVet

      Here we go again…people (at the top) who have nothing better to do! I bet you these people are doing this outrageous thing to divert attention away from the many scandals that the Navy has been embroiled in, such as the LCS (with a designated tugboat, LOL), an aircraft carrier that will never see the ocean in my lifetime, Navy Officers on the take, etc., etc. Fools!!! A ship is a big floating electronic, mechanical, logistical, and human system. Each person has his/her own specialty – this is how this gismo works. Would you trust a Yeoman tinkering with the innards of a F/A 18 or a Machinist Mate cooking your meals? There are a lot of really dumb people in the Navy who can really BS their way to a promotion and believe me if the “success” of this cross-training becomes tied to the promotion of the people in command, this cross-training will become a paperwork drill just like what happened to the SW/AW program. Here are some pencils XO/DH/DO/Chiefs, go whip it baby!

    • Michael Thornton

      Not sure this could have been worded any better… Makes you think when these landlubber liberals heard the phrase, “Go Navy!” they took it too literally.

    • Mike Wickline


    • Robert Closson

      well said Brion

    • Salted meat and sails

      This really confuses me since I was a student of history and naval warfare on top of 22 years in the fleet and Marine Corps and it doesn’t make ANY sense. An HM is not a QM and I have yet to see a good BM doing two different rating’s jobs at once- I assume this was done to improve combat effectiveness (sarcasm), I bet it’s to screw sailors out of libo or cash… anyway thank you Admiral M

    • RonKeffer

      Great point !

    • RickRavenRumey

      I agree how about an in port watch bill?

  • ADM64

    Glad to see that the Navy’s priorities are straight: ratings (including gender-neutral ones), PC-names for ships, and changing uniforms. Presumably Able-Bodied Seaman is doubly out because it is “ableist” and gender-exclusive. Nothing will want to make someone enlist like that. Meanwhile, LCS is a disaster, the Ford class CVN doesn’t work properly, no one remembers how to navigate without GPS (or apparently with it), we have more admirals than ships, and an article in Scout Warrior noted that by 2022 our shipboard torpedo defense system might actually be working!

    I’m sure China (and others) place the same importance on these priorities as we do, so there’s nothing to worry about.

  • Eric Schwarze

    So they’re changing everything to “be inclusive”…trying to eliminate rates because so many end with “man”…but e-1 to e-3s will all be called seamen…soooo….after all that, ending 200 years of tradition…they will still have the same problem…super…now I am not a person huge on tradition…but i do not support incompetence.

    The real issue here is leadership, You don’t debase yourself in order to get people to join,or retention, or to build morale, or appease outsiders., you evaluate yourself…and that is the distinction that Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus does not understand.

    • vabeachguy79

      But you must realize Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus is an Obama administration puppet. Enough said! This administration cares more about transforming the military’s culture vice ensuring the services are properly manned, trained, equipped to fight wars when called upon.

      • Eric Schwarze

        I do not put much credence behind anyone saying things like “Obama Admin Puppet” and equating a 30 year trend in the military of decreasing leadership capabilities, self justifying actions of said bloated leadership, systemic problems with the culture that has developed within that community, and so on to one specific administration.
        This has been brewing for decades, much of it brought on by the military not only allowing, but through socialization, promoting and pushing for people to “play the game” in order to get promoted. So many more factors went into this debacle than Obama appointing 1 position.

  • Teri

    241 years of tradition down the tubes!!!

  • Ed L

    Finally took over 200 years to abolish top foremast hand. Coxswain. Oarsman. Sailmaker. Bet people would be really upset if they were changing from petty officer first class to Staff sergeant or Petty Officer Third Class to Corporal/specialist and seamen to private Chief petty officer’s to Sergeant first class Master Sergeant etc.

    • Billy

      Funny, there are so many CMDs that think they’re CSMajs…

  • Chuck Whitehouse

    My wife who was never in the military asked how does this promote gender neutrality. All it does is make recognizing who is what rate more confusing.

  • CaptMath

    I see an upside. I was a Personelman. 26 years. I had a chance to transfer to a station I wanted. Unfortunately they had a DK billet and not a PN. If assignments were based on MOS vs rating, I could have been eligible for that slot.

    • Charles Hart

      You were a Personnelman who never learned to spell the name of your rate in 26 years? No wonder the DKs didn’t want you!

      • CaptMath

        Good one. But since I retired 21 years ago and they have since combined PN and DK ratings I might have got it now anyway. Does not change my point.

  • Shaka_X

    With crews half the size of the crew on my tin cans, manning (excuse me) crewing, vessels twice as large and ten times as complex. I understand the need for cross-training and flexibility. But this seems like throwing the baby out with the bathwater, Will they still wear rating badges?

  • Shawn Colson

    No where in the statement are the words “more effective warfighter” or “improve the Navy’s ability to win wars”

    “…translate Navy occupations more clearly to the American public,” (we did this strictly for public relations)

    • Charles Hart

      Bingo! Public relations has been job #1 in the Navy for 30 years; it is driven by competition for the budget dollar. At the SECNAV staff level, they will do literally anything for anyone they think can influence public opinion, including movie stars, business owners, and the press.

    • John Locke

      Having an occupational label doesn’t make one a more effective warfighter or improve the Navy’s ability to win wars either.

  • J. Furry

    It doesn’t matter what they change, the Navy will always be a good old BOYS club.

    • Devil_Doc

      Did you ever serve in the Navy?

      • jminsandiego

        Eyes up three clicks. She identifies as retired Navy.

    • hatinontruth

      Beggin your pardon sir.. I know several Chief Petty Officers of the female variety who would give zero f**ks about ripping your throat out for that comment.

  • George

    Sad. Hope to h*ll they will be ready to defend and not throw cake because we all know the other side will be ready!

  • J. Furry

    I am a woman. Retired Navy…that’s how I know.

  • J. Furry

    Spoken like a true marine Saunders. AKA, JARHEAD. There’s clearly a good reason behind that name.

  • Pat Diven

    So what do you do in the Navy?…..”uuuuuuuummm….Idunoooooooo…uuummm”

    • John Locke

      If a Sailor couldn’t answer that question after “A” school then maybe they shouldn’t be in the Navy

  • Ret-Navy

    Next step after is robotic androids for “manpower” needs, then totally pilotless, remote-controlled ships with satellite guidance systems pre-programmed ashore for mission critical junctures into hotspots worldwide. It could probably happen very soon, even today — except for channel maneuvering (fly a pilot aboard maybe?)

    • CheezMonster

      We already have an autonomous ship. Its called the Sea Hunter.

  • mcgirv

    What a load of PC Crap!

  • Michki067

    The Navy. It used to be an organization with a Mission Statement; now it’s Mission Whatever.

  • jminsandiego

    No value-added to these changes.

    Me = EWCS (Ret, thank goodness)

  • Rob, Portland

    Eventually, the cancer of political correctness will have to be surgically, violently removed from the body of the American Military. All of you veterans who are complaining bitterly online, I tell you now, that is a completely feckless activity. It is an exercise in futility.

    Instead, it is time for Veterans to actively ORGANIZE into a movement to overturn the politically correct changes of the past few decades. I have coined a term for this movement: Friends of the Old Breed. Whatever it is called is irrelevant. What matters is that Veterans must convert their ANGER into ACTIVISM.

  • James Mcdonough


  • James Shields

    What a disaster. The one branch of service draped in tradition. I feel sorry for the Navy today. It seems it forgot that it was the military and not some civilian corporation. I guess boot camp will be quicker without teaching future sailors tradition, but maybe they make up that time with gender neutral training?!?! I guess everyone should all be called unics! I will always be a GMM2 (SW) 4 life!

  • Robert Roberson

    Political correctness run amok. Shameful.

  • Michael Areno

    More nonsense from Obama and Rainbow Ray. Trump 2016. PR1(AW) Ret

    • John Locke

      or more incentive to make Chief if you don’t like being called a Petty Officer.

      • Michael Areno

        It’s competitive enough

  • The Plague

    Rabid, out-of-control ideologues, unchecked subversives, domestic enemies.

  • And the shiny new MCPON stands by the bubblehead CNO with a simpering grin on his face. Looks like the PC crowd picked the right guy for the job. Del Black is spinning in his grave.

  • Sean Killian

    This is obviously the brain child of of Officers and Civilians that could give a damn about Enlisted traditions. Throw aways heritage to save some money so the addicts in the Pentagon can buy another LCS or DDX that can’t even leave the pier.

  • Tacitus Talks

    The military, any military is based on tradition. They add a sense of belonging and consistency. This started with the Persian “Immortals”. The unit was 10,000 strong, and if they lost 100 men, 100 men would replace them, the unit was “immortal”. Some goes with ratings, remembering and honoring the age of sail, the bravery and honor and sacrifice to bring us to day. You repudiate your past, and you have no future.

    They are trying to APPLY the same process in modern cooperate America – REORG. Companies constantly change under the misguided premise that change is always good. Change is ONLY GOOD, if replace something that is intolerably bad or needs to be improved. Change for the sake of change is utter insanity and leaves p eople in a constant sense of uncertainty. This why American business is in such horrible shape. So let’s screw up the military.

  • MLepay

    And yet another generation wrings hands and gnashes teeth over change from what they knew. My Father ‘aka Chief’ (WWII, Korea, Vietnam) did the same about the Navy after he retired in ’66 and then my Navy (’84-’94) yet somehow the Navy continued then to fulfill its mission and will continue to do so in the future not because of a rating system but because of the men and women serving and I am sure they will adapt just fine and all this will be a blip in history.
    I have never been one to get very worked up over change (especially that I can’t control) as it is inevitable in all facets of life. Takes less energy and generates a lot less stress to embrace it and go find opportunity in it instead.

    • medic5392

      You sir are an idiot. This is over two centuries of tradition gone and that is on top of getting rid of almost every other tradition because of women. Blue Nose? Shell Back? etc…all are just handing a “participation” certificate now because of women. Women are 2.6x more likely to be an unplanned loss than their male counterparts and yet we never stop bending over backwards for them. This is not a slight change and also it is obvious that you do not know much about the Navy and how it works in relation to the ranks and ratings.

      • John Locke

        Yeah cause calling someone a Petty Officer always prevented them from doing their job

        • medic5392

          Sigh…not the point, but it is ok John who does not actually believe in the philosophy of Locke.

          • John Locke

            Assumptions befit you. Regardless, the impetus of your comment was loathing of change which you conveniently used to announce a dislike of female Sailors. Until the Navy regards a certain level of loss based on gender unacceptable, which it never will, all your facts do is embolden your misogynistic attitude.

          • medic5392

            Sigh….no, the other poster took up the issue of women on ships as change that we adapted to and that is not true as every study done on it has shown. I like how you say all your “facts”, people like yourself usually detest them and the comment on misogyny is typical of one who cannot argue a point and hence they use that as a way to shut the conversation down. I will keep using facts though, they go with logic, reason and the like. You keep plugging away though, might want to read some Locke too, sure doesn’t seem like you have with your posts.

      • MLepay

        Generally when someone resorts to childish name calling and personal insults I ignore them. But in this case i will reply. I have been in or around the Navy the majority of my life, served proudly (GSMC (sw)) and am the proud son of a BMC, so I think I understand how it works and that includes how to talk to other people in a civil and respectful manner in writing or face to face even if I disagree with them. I am also not afraid of change, progress, women being in the military or any job they are qualified/able to do.There are still plenty of traditions to carry on, and if our senior enlisted are worth a salt they will keep the best traditions alive in other ways and more importantly start new ones. Regardless I hope you have a great day and a pleasant weekend.

        • medic5392

          You are right, I should not have called you an idiot. I apologize. Your points however are sill wrong. You are essentially advocating for change for the sake of change. Traditions in the Navy have been almost eliminated today, that is just the truth and if you are as familiar with the service as you claim you are then you would know that is the reality.
          On the women in the military part, there is a great saying that amateurs talk tactics but professionals talk logistics. Women are 2.6x more likely to be an unplanned loss than their male counterparts in the Navy, that is from the CNA study of women at sea. It was done over a decade and the results were glaring. When you take away pregnancy they, (Women), are still 2x more likely to be an unplanned loss than their male counterparts. Manning is a logistics issue and they, (women), are not value added.

          • ST

            Please stop contributing this change to women in the Navy. I am a female Sailor and I was never asked or consulted in any of this, nor did I complain about titles with “man” in them, and every female I know or work with is the same way. This was solely done from civilian leadership. And as someone who does logistics for a living, increasing your recruitment pool from half the population to the whole population does in fact add value. I have never missed an underway, but I know many men who have for various reasons to include drug use, mental health issues and injuries. That street goes both ways.

          • medic5392

            The change is due to that, it is irrelevant what you think or that you were not consulted, that is why the change is happening. As for guys missing cruise, yup it happens, but the stats shows the truth, 10% of men in the navy are an unplanned loss, 26% of women are and that includes everything in the study from mental health, injury, discipline, etc… I have several females at my current duty station who are pregnant and have to be put on shore billets that men cannot get due to those positions being filled. One has yet to deploy in 8 years. It is a joke.

            On opening the pool up? IF they treated you like the men I would be fine with it, but the military does not and it does not enforce standards on females in terms of height/weight, PRT, discipline anyone for getting pregnant right before cruise, etc…I am all for equality, tell me when you see it. Oh, also, women have a quota in the military. SecNav and SecArmy both stated a 30% goal of females in the forces. That means it is a quota. So again, when you see equality tell me so I can get a glimpse.

  • bass_man86

    Good bye Mike Stevens and good riddance; tell me Mr. E9, can you look at yourself when you shave in the morning? You have presided over the dismantling of virtually every worthwhile tradition and virtually everything that made the Navy unique. Shipwreck, the Navy is not the Army, it is not the USMC, and it is not the Air Force. Remaking the Navy in the image of the other braches of the service will not improve anything except your resume. If members of the other branches of the service do not understand Navy ratings that is their problem, not the Navy’s. Shame on you and your fellow brown nosers!

  • eddie046

    Mabus is the WORST SECNAV in the entire history of the Navy! I encourage every US Navy service member and veteran to contact their representatives in Congress to reverse this ridiculous decision!

    • Refguy

      He fits in well with the Carter DoD

  • Go_USA2012

    The people in charge have lost their minds.

    • The_Usual_Suspect61

      Oh, that happened a long time ago!

  • RIPNavyPride

    So, with removing the rates from everyone (IE: HM2, IT1, CTNC) does that mean the MCPON is no longer MCPON? I mean you can’t have a CTNCM anymore so there is no MCPON anymore right?

  • jimmer99

    Who was the whale puke that came up with destroying an honored tradition? Was this some liberal Progressive bored Commander that came up from the bilge?

    • RIP NavyPride

      Secretary Mabus

  • The_Usual_Suspect61

    Mabus is an idiot and a political toady. He has dedicated himself to the cause that the old-time, hardcore commies could only dream of…destroying the United States Navy.

    • John Locke

      cause calling someone a Petty Officer destroyed a Sailors ability to perform their job?

      • The_Usual_Suspect61

        Non-sequitur much?

  • Randy Howell

    So the next step….one unified “Armed Forces”..? Yes, im sure its coming….one uniform…one set of ranks…. and since the Army, Air Force and Marine Corps, use the same “rank system” i.e. from “Sergent to General”….. Navy ranks will probably go by the wayside as well. It’s a sad day for the military and its traditions….”Goodbye” Army/Navy football rivalry!…. and what of the Coast Guard? Yeah, I know it’s Department of Transportation but they are still one of the armed services. And the military academies?

    Welcome to “military socialism”

    R.Howell GSCS(SW/AW) US Navy Ret.

    • Old Coasty

      The U.S. Coast Guard is in the Department of Homeland Security now and has been promoted from one of the five “Armed Forces” into the “Military” under President Bush (2).

  • RobM1981

    Yes, this is what the nation needs. This is how we attain the security that the citizens demand.

    I’m glad that we are focused on the critical. Our children are being saddled with crushing debt, but at least it’s being done to accomplish these must-do’s.

    I realize that nobody here is voting for Hillary Clinton, but I tell you right now: if perchance you are, please understand that you are literally squandering the lives of our children to accomplish this utter nonsense.

    I challenge you to find a more perfect, pure, flawless example of waste.

  • medic5392

    So much of this is false.
    1.) We have always had an “NOS”, it was just called an NEC.
    2.) We have always had multiple NECs
    3.) The purpose of a rate was that you are to be an SME in that area, be in HM, BM, ST, whatever…Yet everyone was still expected to be a basic sailor.
    4.) This is not going to help things out, make rank any easier and like so many other traditions this one is now gone too.

  • Machia

    The Navy should not be concerned with PC ! Tradition is important . The Navy is becoming a ” slack ship ” . This is not a social experiment , it’s the United Stares Navy .

  • Mac

    Imagine the surprise of a wounded Marine or Sailor when the call goes out “Seaman, Seaman” and a boatswains mate striker shows up, marlinspike….er….shiny rope thingy in hand (don’t want to confuse the civilians).

    • John Locke

      The Army doesn’t have that problem, why would it be any different in your scenario?

      • jminsandiego

        The Army is used to it. Mabus has caused an upset rhat will take years to right itself. If it had a real reason, I could see it, like the conversion from burning bunker oil to burning ND in our steam powered ships.

        Change for the sake of change has no intrinsic value.

        BTW, what is your station in Life? Your current position related to your service in or with the USN? (I retired in 1982 as a Senior Chief Electronic Warfare Technician, having been a Chief CTM before converting.)

      • medic5392

        The Army does not have the same mission. You do not seem to be able to differentiate between services. Testing, assignments, etc…will all be based off of this and the Army is not a model we should want to emulate.

      • DocsWife

        Don’t soldiers yell “MEDIC” when they’re hurt, just like Marines yell “CORPSMAN” when they’re down?

  • Hayden G. Evans MMCS retired

    For over 200 years the US Navy has gone by the K. I. S. S. system. (Keep It Simple Stupid), and it worked quite well. When reading this, I was afraid they would use the names for SCPO, and MCPO as Senior, and Master. I guess Admirals Should be addressed as Rear, and Vice. I served for twenty years as an MM. Starting as an FA, and retiring as MMCS. As I was always proud of my work as a MM I will keep my designation after retirement. MMCS (SCPO). I’m sure the Navy has more pressing things to worry about than this.

    • Refguy

      Some Admirals would be Lower Half Rear

  • A Clifford Tumlison

    Leave things alone they have work for 241 years. Have we forgot the great idea for uniform change in the ADM Zumwalt days.

  • MarkWisdom

    “The change comes as Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus has pushed the Department of the Navy to create gender-neutral titles…”

    “For lower pay grades E-1 to E-3, ‘”there will no longer be a distinction between ‘Airman, Fireman and Seaman’,” reads a statement from the service.
    “They will all be, ‘Seaman’.”
    So much for ‘gender-neutral titles’, LOL!

  • Ed O’Bryan

    Retired as an ET2 and will always be.

  • publius_maximus_III

    “The change comes as Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus has pushed the Department of the Navy to create gender-neutral titles…”

    Then it would seem they missed the boat settling on the term “Seaman” for the E1-E3 previously known as Airman, Fireman, Yeoman, etc. since it contains the objectionable(?) gender specific term “man”. Should have instead settled on Sailor, or Mariner, or Shipmate, or Deck Ape…. somebody stop me, please!

    Well, all I can say is THIS latest change will surely make those Ruskie-Sino-Iranian bad boys think twice before making any provocative maneuvers around our gender-neutral ships.

  • Joshua Alexander

    So let me get this straight your a Marine that just got shot and your now calling for who. Since Corpsman has man in it you can’t say Corpman Up. Doc Up I guess works but then some Doctor will complain that we aren’t real doctors. Whats funny is even though they state you have to remove man they are keeping Seaman wtf.

  • Nightmarish for the lower ranks E-1 to E-3. I served as an Avionics Tech when I was in the service. I later moved into an Instructor Billet. I can see value in some flexibility, but the motive for doing this massive restructure is all wrong. A rating badge is a badge of honor.

    Political correctness is gutting our Navy and destroying morale. ‘Inclusivity’ is including people who are not suited to the rigors of shipboard life. Kids that have no respect for themselves or authority figures have no place in the United States Navy. Naval Aviation is not a forgiving career. It isn’t the place for ‘diversity’ and social engineering. The concept in itself reflect a disdain for tradition and authority. Airmen that buck authority when flying will eventually find themselves auguring their plane into the ground or into the water.

    Oh and changing rates to numbers? Put that together with the social engineering they want to do? Oh dear that will never fly! Seaman knucklehead is a 2145, but he can’t remember his MOS because he’s been out sleeping around with his lovers and getting drunk!

    • Ed L

      My Daughter is in the Army and while she has only two MOS, but is on the promotion list for SGT, She says her badge of honor is her Specialist Rank. She is looking forward to getting her SGT stripes.

  • ✓ᴰᵉᵖˡᵒʳᵃᵇˡᵉ

    Keep the ratings, dump Mabus and Richardson.

  • Leatherstocking

    Agree with earlier post on Sailor rather than Seaman (the key in many a politically-incorrect naval joke). I guess we’ll have to audio-edit Star Trek for Yeoman Janice Rand to be renamed something politically correct. No one knows what to do with “coxswain”. Next thing will be “left” for “port” (I was always a fan of “larboard” myself) and we’ll have stairs instead of ladders, etc. Let’s just retire all naval terminology and we can flood our ships with idiots and bureaucrats (yes, I know that’s redundant).

  • Pat Diven

    I was joking dorkwaad…Just how are they going to identify themselves other than “Petty Officer”…it sounds pretty lame to me…..An AD1 leaves no question to what he or she does

    • John Locke

      The same way they do in the other services.

  • muzzleloader

    What bunch of BS! So are rating badges going to disappear now?

  • Chief Bo

    Welcome to US Navy Corporate, no longer a military organization but a corporation entity. The military has gone to HE dbl toothpicks in a hand basket since my retirement……Chief Damage Controlman (Ret) and proud

    • Chief Bo

      I also seem to remember about 10 to 12 years ago Navy higher ups wanted to merge HT, DC and MR and call it Shipboard Repair Technician or some such BS

  • w32e31

    I understand the e-1 to e-3 change. It makes no sense to change mm2 to ____. Unless…all of the services are going to a single central system. Then, there could be some good cost savings.
    I remember when the Bush administration wanted to switch all of the CINC designation. Being with CINCUSNAVEUR, I know that it cost well over a million dollars…just for the NAVEUR portion. What a waste of money.

  • John B. Morgen

    A perfect storm is coming, and may GOD save the Navy for its own administrative mistakes.

  • Skysailor

    Another PC Crazy Idea. This will further impede readiness by adding confusion and delay in an emergency.


    More useless nonsense!

  • Marcd30319

    More “fundamental change” from this arrogant administration.

  • George Swatzbaugh

    This is total BS. It was long talk to do away with the rating part on the chevron to save money. Just like a few other bs things. Yes ratings change due to technology and times of the modern day. I get that. For example, we no longer have boiler tender and the last BT was a Master Chief who retired about a year ago. Its one thing to cut cost here and there. But as a BU1, SCW, tradition should never change. Call it the new acryonm you want. But any sailor transitioning to civilian life will have a prepared resume of their job skills not just, hey I was a Seabee BU1. I think the higher ups in the Navy need to take alook at their officer trends and see what is or not been changed over the years. Lastly, what if we take upper and lower admiral and combine them and see how they like it.

  • EZ Bill

    Nope…..not in my Navy…..EO-2……now. H150-2…….sounds classy…..

  • Rick554

    Good to see that the NAVY has all the time it needs for transforming genders…..building and sailing ships….not so much!

  • cris roush

    So how is advancement going to work? I worked extremely hard to make AD1 in 6 1/2 years and I’ll forever be a mech. EP evals are still difficult when ranking boards are in rate. Let’s throw everyone in the mix with multiple NOS’s and come up with some bs universal advancement exam? How will they determine who makes board for chief or who sits the board? I’m guessing there will have to be selection boards for 3rd class on up? No more rate no more rating badge… hope ol SECNAV sets aside a few extra bucks for all of us for a supplemental uniform allowance. I have a bunch of rateless 1st class crows to buy and sew on… if I weren’t on active duty I would vent more but I would hate to offend anyone..

  • Tom Currie


  • des111168

    Next up: Petty Officer is replaced because it sounds insulting to the modern ear.

    The Chinese are laughing at us.

    • Refguy

      They’re already talking about this; Proceedings a few months ago

  • John Churchin

    Have asked Adm. Richardson how it feels to be known as Mr. Richardson? I have. Am currently waiting for a response. For some reason, don’t think I will receive one.

  • Tony

    They are trying to kill the history of the navy and they are going to get rid of Navy terminology no more forward and aft, no more port and starboard. They will now be front and back, and left and right
    241 years of tradition gone by a bunch of stupid admirals

  • canuck

    January 20th cannot come soon enough and Mabus will be out the door right behind Obama. Another great reason to vote for Trump because I doubt he will appoint anyone who think their principal job is to install PC rules and name ships after various political losers

  • Ryan Gomiscek

    Politicization of the military is going too far.
    Yesterday, the Navy announced it was scrapping the enlisted ratings, something
    that has been around for 214 years. The explanation, or selling point, or smoke
    blown up our back ends was that removing our ratings, which hold a lot of pride
    for enlisted Sailors, will open up opportunities for training, assignments and
    bring us in line with what the other branches do. The problem with this smoke
    and mirrors explanation is this; we already have a system of codes which tells
    what courses we have taken, what qualifications we have and this all goes in to
    what billets we can take. For example, I am a Hospital Corpsman, I can take
    billets in my rating which require the Navy Enlisted Classifications (NEC) I
    hold. I cannot take a Biomedical Repair technician billet, because I have not
    been to B-met school. If I chose to do this, I would apply for the course, and
    then make myself eligible for the particular billet. The new way basically took
    the title of “Hospital Corpsman” and made it into a family code
    “G000” and I can request schools from that family, of which,
    Biomedical Repair technician is one, I would gain the biomed code and choose a
    billet that requires that. So where is the change, where is the flexibility?

    other improvements this was supposed to make, such as advancement, cross
    training and others, has yet to be determined and was listed as “under
    development” or “we are working on a solution”. What this all
    boiled down to was the left’s social engineering and inclusion scam they have
    been running for the last 8 years. They asked Sailors, male and female, whether
    or not they were dissatisfied with “man” in their rating name, e.g.
    Hospital Corpsman, Fire Controlman, Seaman, Damage Controlman, among others. Overwhelmingly, the fleet
    responded that they were proud of the 214 years of heritage and the legacy and
    pride of being a part of these ratings. That answer was not good enough for Mr
    Mabus, who has been the social engineer of the Navy. He made, with disregard
    for the history, tradition and pride, an immediate and huge mistake rolling out
    a policy that has, in less than 24 hours, sunk morale in the United States
    Navy, across all ranks. There was no warning of this coming, no feelers put out
    to the fleet and a Naval Message that said, Effective immediately we will not
    use ratings anymore. Not even the zero tolerance drug policy rolled out as
    effective immediately. I urge you look at Navy social media pages and see the
    disruption this is causing in our fleet. During a time we are fighting
    terrorists, an expanding China and Russia, this is the battle that SECNAV
    thought was worth fighting. Wonderful leadership.

  • niterider

    I think its demeaning to the sailor who have worked long and hard to achieve their particular rank/rating I am a retired Radarman and I always will be stop trying to appease the bleeding heart liberals !!! I am greatly offended but this. Leave well enough alone !!!!!!

  • SH9168

    My father was a Seaman First Class during WWII. What would he be now?

    • Old Coasty

      WW2 ranks for enlisted counted the opposite (E7 through E1) from today (E1 through E9). So your father was an E5 Seaman First Class, equal to todays E3 Seaman.

      Rank # Rank Name

      E7 Apprentice Seaman
      E6 Seaman Second Class
      E5 Seaman First Class

      Rank # Rank Name

      E1 Seaman Recruit
      E2 Seaman Apprentice
      E3 Seaman

      Hope that helps you.

  • Dano

    With todays logic how can a E1-3 just be called seaman? Aren’t there any E1-3 females or do women now get a pas on the first 3 enlisted ranks to make it all fair? Where are the seawomen? Maybe they should just change the term completely and just call all the lower ranks seaweed? If the Navy no longer wants 1st to3rd class Petty Officers or Chiefs acknowledged showing any distinction maybe they can just call all of them seamonsters. Just a thought from an ‘OLD’ Marine. (Most of what I said was in jest)

  • Patrick Cawley

    For an E-6 and below, the rate you have maters more that the pay-grade as it defines what you do. For E-7 and above the pay-grade matters more as they are managers rather than workers. Obviously “recently retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Steve” has been in the E-7 and above group so song he has forgotten his roots. If this had happened I would be referred to as “Petty Officer First Class”(7 syllables) which would have told you nothing about what I did; rather than AT1 (3 syllables) which is not only quicker and differentiated me from the other first classes I was usually with. Political correctness rather than brevity and clarity, just what you need in an emergency

  • Daniel J Read

    Cultural Marxism at work in the Pentagon, this is why we need Trump in office.

    • John Locke

      So swap out Cultural Marxism for Cultural Fascism, got it.

  • Daniel Choate

    Well there goes my chance of being FCC. Curently an E3 in purgatory that is known as Great Lakes.

    • John Locke

      When/if you make Chief you will have a different perspective

  • Core

    Win for the politically correct, how lame.. So some guy comes along after 241 years of rich naval history and says -man is gender biased? Welcome to the 21st Century folks, where leaders are truly dictators. So are they going to change Seaman Recruit, Seaman Apprentice and Seaman? What about Chief, that must be gender biased? Airman, Infantryman? What nonsense.

  • jd111417

    Thank God I retired in 2008.

  • Stan Kapp USCG Ret.

    I was a ADJ-2 and a Loadmaster on a C-9. As an airman I was a crewman on a HH-3
    KLets see a mass communicator fix a Turbo Fan engine…..

  • Liberty Call

    Would be nice in emergencies to get the airmen to the flight deck and firemen to the engineering spaces, seamen to man the lines and boats, gunners mates to the gun mounts, etc. When it hits the fan, the command duty officer can take a quick survey as to how each Sailor “identifies.” With Mabus, diversity is more important than safety of the ship. Pure genius. Casualties ensure inclusiveness without a bit of discrimination.

  • Bo

    PC eyewash from an Administration more concerned about “Climate Change” than a nuclear Iran or North Korea. As a father of two servicemen and a three-tour combat veteran, this type of nonsense sickens me.

  • RK05rider

    Ok, let’s talk confusion and change….
    Upon retirement, I was a 4955, 4921, 9593, and 9585… What, no clue without looking them up? Does it help if I say HTCS(SW)?

    How about: Senior Chief Petty Officer. Hull Maintenance Technician, Enlisted Surface Warfare Specialist,
    4955 – Advanced Welder, 4921 – Journeyman Metal Worker, 9593 – Submarine Repair Specialist, 9585 – Recruiting. (Where I was assigned Command Senior Chief =9578)
    My personal experience in my career;

    Tradition has been that the USN changes things! Just before I enlisted, my rating was called Shipfitter and also Damage controlman. It was further identified as Shipfitter pipe, Shipfitter metalsmith. They merged to become all inclusive Hull Technician, with NEC specialties. After about 10 years, they decided bad idea, so took damage control out of the HT rating and created the old / new DC rating. I was a submarine repair specialist, however HT rating was not assigned to submarines (? huh) so the Machinistmate (MM) did all the welding and metal repairs while underway and HT took care of things at the IMAV (tender,TRF) level. An HT could also be an EOD, DV or SEAL, never doing the HT job, but still having to compete on exams with all HTs. Other rates that I worked with that dissolved during my career ETN/ETR, BT to name a few. New rates that were created such as NC, GSM, GSE…Women in the Navy…WAVES, WINS… I served on both the USS Piedmont & USS Vulcan when women were first assigned as crewMEN.

    My point, through just my career, the Navy was constantly changing rating, names and tasks and we adapted and continued to function professionally and it soon become part of the normal culture. This too will become “standard Navy” quickly and continue to be the best navy in the world!

  • Chris Barnes

    The idiocy of being politically correct rears it’s ugly head once again.

    — forever HM2

  • Kim Chul Soo

    More PC crap.

  • JustMe

    Sorry … absolutely can NOT see any rational, logical or reasonable basis for this totally STUPID decision.

    Perhaps Mabus needs to spend at least ten minutes on a naval vessel BEFORE launching himself intp “political correctness la-la land”. Or make the rounds (NOT on the base golf course) on a shore station. Obviously, he’s as clueless as Obama (the pretend lawyer).

    (former ET-1, USN)

  • blujkts

    If I drop my rating, can I now become a Pilot?

  • Donald J. Sutton

    With a little luck, this insanity will end in January 2017. When we have a real Commander-in-Chief, the Obama-picked Admirals and Generals will go quietly.

  • old guy

    A rose by any other name…………….. How about following the rate with a short title (e.g. Petty officer, 3rd class, Smith, machinist (cut out the “mate” nonsense)

  • Brace for Impact

    Do you suppose they’re will be a queerman, because this new method doesn’t seem to be Real definitive.

    this is as useful as teets on a boar hog!!

  • joe

    Glad I retired 4 years ago. What a cluster fuck.

  • Sons of Liberty


  • Triggerguard

    So is the CNO going to change is last name too?? It should now be Richardchild or Richardoffspring or Richardidiot!!! What a crock!!!

  • Steve Wikert

    People who are making political comments in here about what our next president might do in terms of these ratings changes should realize that Hillary Clinton’s dad was a Chief in the USN. Just saying!! She has a very deep respect for the US Navy! I met her last year and when she heard I was a Navy vet and a Vietnam veteran I instantly had her ear. She showed instant respect and suddenly ignored all the other people in the crowd around her and talked to me and my wife for awhile.

  • Mike Potter EO2, 65 to 69

    The Seabees was not mention in this posting. They are equipment operators, builders, electricians, etc. They are not equipment operatorman, builderman, electricianman, etc. It was also mention that there will be no longer be airman or fireman in the E-1 to E-3 ranking, they will be referred to as seaman only. So does an E-1to E-3 Seabee refer as a seaman or constructionman ?


    Who going to be deployed with the Marines, SN Puffinstuff and a REAL CORPSMAN that knows what they’re doing. I wouldn’t trust a cross trialed machinist mate in battle with the Marines. They need A REAL CORPSMAN who’s been trained in real trauma and emergency surgery and medicine

  • RangerDoug

    Here are the real questions: how much will this change cost? Does the Navy save any money by making this change? How will affect morale and readiness?

    I suspect that there will be a net increase in cost. First, there will be a large expense for changing administrative documentation. There will be no change in content of training or examinations for qualifications and advancement. There will, however, be a significant expense involved in making administrative changes to them.

    Individual sailors will face the expense in time and money required to change their uniform insignia. Yes, they will get a one-time adjustment to their uniform allowance, but that allowance will cover the MINIMUM uniform requirement. However, any truly squared-away sailor, chief or officer I knew had several more uniforms than the minimum required. So, they will have to “eat” that additional expense on their own, and the Navy will have to pay for the additional uniform allowance.

    The next most pressing question is: How will this affect readiness? In this case, there are two issues that I can think of. The first of these is esprit de corps. Even in paygrades E1-E3, we find pride within apprenticeships and a healthy sort of competition among apprenticeships. As sailors gained experience, training and rank within their ratings and rating groups, the cohesion and pride in professional reputation grew. This change effectively weakens this this positive aspect of morale, thereby negatively affecting readiness.

    Second aspect of readiness impacted is effectiveness of individuals. The system change is supposed to encourage cross-training. Well, that already happened among rating groups (and across rating groups). This was very well illustrated by the former HM who wrote in. (Anybody who has served in small units or small ships is keenly aware of this necessity.) Instead, we will regularly face the quandary alluded to before in the “manning the whaleboat” scenario. The upshot is that we gain nothing in effectiveness, and risk a diminishment of effectiveness.

    Based on the article, there were two main goals of this restructuring. First, make the titles more “inclusive;” and second, improve the flexibility of ratings for changes that arise from technological and end-strength changes.

    The first of these could be addressed relatively easily through practice and incremental changes to administrative materials. Some of these have already “evolved” (e.g., “Sonarman” has already become “Sonar Technician”). Others are inherently “non-gender” (at least as far as current usage is concerned). Boatswains Mate, Machinist Mate, Gunners Mate, Electronics Technician and Operations Specialist are examples (the impllicit, etiological “maleness” of the archaic term “swain” notwithstanding). If we really want to “de-genderize” the rating names, a preponderence of them could be addressed by changing the rating names by using “Mate,” “Specialist,” and “Technician” as the terminal ending or the rating description instead of “-man.”

    The issue of rating name flexibility in the face of changes in rating populations due to changes in end strengths and technology has already been addressed a number of times by the methods that this so-called change calls for. A number of years ago, the Signalman rating was absorbed into the Quartermaster rating, and Boiler Technicians were absorbed into the Machinists Mate rating. Such changes can be made incrementally with little increase in expense.

    As it was, training for Quartermasters and former Signamen continued to rely on the training manuals QM3 & 2, SM1 &C, etc, until new editions were required because of depleted stock or changes in the methods and technologies being used. At such NATURAL evolutionary training points, a new edition of a combined training manual could be published, reflecting the revised rating community.

    I predict a couple of things:

    First off, it will be a long time before sailors, chiefs and officers stop using the “old” rating names. While they might more readily address a sailor as “PO2” instead of “ST2” or “MM2” or “HM2”, they will still refer to skill sets by rates and ratings (Boatswains Mate, Corpsman) instead of their “NOSs.” (And what was wrong with “NEC,” anyway?) After all, when we can’t make out the rating symbol an ET2 is wearing, we already address him or her as “Petty Officer” or “PO2.”

    Second, we will likely see a reversion to something more like our current rating system descriptors after a few years. During his tenure as CNO, Admiral Zumwalt made a number of good changes and some not-so-good changes. The Service Dress Blue Jacket and combination cover for junior enlisted personnel was introduced because it was a politically correct change meant to promote a false equality in a system whose constituents recognized the need for a structured hierarchy. They also desired the outward, cultural signs that reinforced that hierarchy and the subcultures it contained. Thus, red for the engineering apprenticeship, white for seaman apprenticeship, etc.; Dixie Cups, bell-bottoms and Cracker-Jacks for E-6 and junior; combo covers, anchors, khaki’s and SDB’s for CPOs; gold braid, and officers’ crests for officers.

    Just as the junior enlisted combo cover and SDB jacket reverted to traditional Diixie-cup and Cracker Jacks, we will probably see a similar reversion with rating names. Wounded Sailors and Marines aren’t going to yell out “Quad Zero Medical Technician!!!.” They’re still going to yell for a Corpsman. Just as a pilot or a RIO wants to be known as an Aviator, a ship driver wants to be known as a SWO and a bubblehead wants to be called a Sub-Mariner (my placement of the hyphen was intentional!), and all of them maintain that distinction by means of their warfare specialty pins, I think that our enlisted ranks want to maintain a similar, outward distinction on their uniforms. We do that now by means of rating patches.

    Bottom line here is that Secretary Mabus allowed the working group to go beyond their remit, and the constituency they were supposed to be serving will push back.

  • Finian

    The nation of cowards drags on. It will now be required that you find a lesbian, male homosexual AND a transgender and take them home with you as we were supposed to do with the fellow black coworkers. It doesn’t matter that you don’t have a home since you’re an E-3. Just taking them to your car shows that you are in the spirit of inclusivity and diversity. And if there’s a Muslim and Sikh available, why not bring them along, too.
    Is this insanity?

  • James Worcester

    Ray Mabus was an idiot when he was governor of Mississippi, and whoever appointed him SecNav is an idiot now!

  • RickRavenRumey

    Lets dump all the tradition. While we are at it, why do we need 4 Branches of the Military. and just call it the US Military with all the same uniforms. No more crackerjacks, no more white caps. everybody the same.

  • Jerry Masters

    Wait a goldarn Minute:

    Those “new” titles: Petty officer Jones. Petty Officer First Class Smith? Chief Petty Officer Reilly?


    Those have Always been acceptable titles for US Navy ratings when knowing the particular Rating was unnecessary. Although “Chief Reilly” was the more common manner of address.

    In point of fact, I seldom heard anyone addressed by their Rating unless they had received the distinction of being “The” person called by that title.
    For instance, “Gunner” or “Bosun” would generally mean only one specific person aboard that particular ship, usually the Senior person holding that rating.

    The Rating (Such as FC1 or BM3 or GM2) was normally used on Paperwork such as Work Assignment lists. For instance, in something like a Damage Control party, the person in charge needs to know, unambiguously, what Specialties he has available. You ask the Electrician to verify that the Electricity is OFF before sending men with a Fire Hose into a compartment to put out the fire. That’s not a job for the Engineman or the Bosun’s Mate. .

  • Jack

    When the first Navy Seal Female is accepted and fails then they will only drop the standards to make sure she will make it. This will only weaken the teams which I believe is what the current administration and Military leadership wish……..Stand by for heavy roles…..it’s coming….

  • Patrick Cawley

    For an E-6 and below, the rate you have maters more that the pay-grade as it defines what you do. For E-7 and above the pay-grade matters more as they are managers rather than workers. Obviously “recently retired Master Chief Petty Officer of the Navy Mike Steve” has been in the E-7 and above group so song he has forgotten his roots. If this had happened I would be referred to as “Petty Officer First Class”(7 syllables) which would have told you nothing about what I did; rather than AT1 (3 syllables) which is not only quicker, it differentiated me from the other first classes I was usually with. Political correctness rather than brevity and clarity, just what you need in an emergency.

    As far as NOS improving your ability to change jobs, the real limit is the money available for training.
    The consolidation of some ratings (such as when AT, AQ, AX went to just AT) made sense as we all went to the same A school and when we were in squadrons together we would work in the same shop.
    The real differentiator was your NEC (now NOS) which said what you were qualified to do. After my first sea tour (the final 3 Forrestal deployments) I received orders to VRC-40 as an AT2(AW). These orders were cancelled because there was not enough money for training to the new NEC (now NOS). Who here thinks that there will be more money for training in the future.

    I want to see the reaction when the next logical step is taken. Officers wearing Pilot wings, Water wings, or Dolphins restricts their ability to move to other jobs as the requirements for those skills go away (for example, the advent of carrier capable drones reducing the need for Pilots). Obviously, considering what happened to ratings, these should go away also.

  • More nonsense from an administration changing the primary mission of the US military from defence of the country to social justice.

    Lets hope Trump fixes this quickly.

  • ydrwill

    Shouldn’t it be “seaperson” instead of seaman? Or have two titles “seaman” and “seawoman”, unless of course there is confusion over perceived gender. Since it is all kumbaya now the term “head” has to go.

  • Jake

    Did the NCO and his band of yes men actually read the report just released on the USS Fort Worth, sorry I only did twenty four years active duty as an Engineer, there is a difference between a SN and a FN, unless in an effort to save money they are going to read them old sea stories instead of train them at the Service Schools.

    Manning the Fleet with operators and not people trained on equipmenit, leaves ships unable to deploy, look at the LCS program.

    I don’t agree any Chief can run any division, sometimes you need a guy with a few stripes in their skivvies, when SHTF.

    What next camouflage blue uniforms so when they fall over the side they are even more hidden.

    The Navy needs leaders who have been in the Fleet, not professional sand crabs who play politics.

  • Rob Howard

    Common mistakes made by the U.S. Navy which I served in for over twenty, will never cease to amaze me. Every time the leaders make a change in ratings/designation etc… It takes the junior ranks and undermanned rates or overmanned rates years to recover. Something to be said for tradition. KISS method comes to mind.

  • Joe Kinge

    So much for Navy tradition! Now it’s just every other rag-tag-for-no-reason change. The CNO has to do SOMETHING to leave a legacy: like screw tradition, forget the sailors who manned the ships during the major wars, and forget what it means to be a sailor. Just do what everybody else does, right Richardson?