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Reports: Vietnam Receives Third Kilo Attack Boat

Undated photo of lead Vietnamese Navy Kilo attack submarine HQ-182 Hanoi. via Open Source IMINT

Undated photo of lead Vietnamese Navy Kilo attack submarine HQ-182 Hanoi. via Open Source IMINT

The third Project-636 Kilo-class has arrived in Vietnam, marking the halfway point in the Vietnamese Navy’s planned six boat, $1.8 to 2 billion deal with Russia, according to local press reports.
Pictures emerged of the Dutch heavy load carrier Rolldock Star near Vietnam’s submarine base in Cam Ranh Bay, on the Vietnamese news site, Tuoi Tre News on Jan. 29.

Rolldock Star was believed to be carrying the third Vietnamese Kilo — HQ-184 Haiphong — from the Admiralteiskie Verfi shipyard in St. Petersburg, according to a Tuesday report in Jane’s Defence Weekly.

The two previous boats of the class — HQ-182 Hanoi and HQ-183 Ho Chi Minh City – commissioned into the Vietnamese Navy last year as part of the 2009 contract.

“The contract is believed to include a training and maintenance package. All six boats are scheduled for delivery by 2016,” Jane’s reported.

The 4,000-ton diesel-electric Kilos have been described by the U.S. Navy as “black holes” for their level of quietness.

The boat has a crew of 57 and is capable of firing Russian SS-N-27 anti-ship cruise missiles and MANPADS Strela-3 antiaircraft missiles, according to a 2012 report from USNI News.

The Vietnamese purchase of the Kilos is part of an ongoing trend of countries in the vicinity of the South China Sea acquiring greater submarine capability as a hedge against Chinese naval expansion.

 

 

  • EdC

    Why are the Dutch assisting the Russian Federation with a weapons transfer transaction? Isn’t this a sanction violation?

    • Sandy

      probably a contract – to what sanctions violation are you referring?

      • EdC

        It was my understanding that weapons transfers to other countries was one of the sanction activities. France had contracts relating to the construction of the Mistrals and broke them so my question is why would Dutch companies assist in facilitating weapons transfers by providing heavy-lift for attack submarines.

        • Sandy

          Ed, I’m not sure about the sanctions – would have to delve into them; that said, the Dutch, Danes, Norwegians have the majority of the heavy lift capability, and it is all commercial. I am betting there was not a sanction for the Russians to sell, just receive, such as the MISTRALS. Actually, I am a bit surprised the Russians even bout those ships – they had some pretty good helo/amphib assault ships 20 years ago.

          • EdC

            Their concept of aviation support for the assault and support didn’t seem that well-developed to me. My understanding/belief is that the Russians are not nearly as capable as many think. Look how long they took to finish that submarine (23 years). Building a modern amphibious-assault unit with integrated aviation assets, wet-docking and command-control facilities would be a five-year project and still would leave them building one-offs or sourcing on the world market for sensors, fittings and attachments. Then there’s developing doctrine for amphibious operations, defense and coordination supporting the troops.

          • Secundius

            @ EdC.

            I agree. I’d really like to know what the Desertion Rate is amongst the Soldiers and Sailors are, Considering their not getting paid…

          • EdC

            Not as high as you might think given the reach and integration of their police, military and intelligence services. When you control grandmother’s pension and the family’s external passports, the family thinks twice before acting rashly. Of larger operational concern is training 21-month conscripted newly-trained seamen as sensor operators, flight crews, engineering chiefs and the like then watching them rotate away. THAT’s skipping over that their military training methodologies are not that mature or high-level to begin with. The fact is their ships don’t deploy anywhere nearly as frequently as we are used to for testing and training. What would Russia do if a UNREP ship runs aground in the South Atlantic?

          • Secundius

            @ EdC.

            I suspect the reason why they wanted the French made Mistral class Gator-Freighters so much. Is that they deploy a Battalion of 450-Spetsnaz troops on each ship, a small air group of Mi-25 Hind-E, Ka-50 Black Sharks or Ka-52 Alligators for “Blitzkrieg” style raids on places of interest. To destabilize their governments and communications networks and send in their specialized troops and take over. Or even try a “Doolittle” style raids using MiG-29K’s or Su-33’s. The plane could probably launch from the ships, but not land on them. Do the destruction, then return to home base in Putin’s Russia…

          • EdC

            I think Putin knows the Red Army couldn’t keep more than 2-3 divisions in the field for more than 90 days of full combat. These ships would have been the beginnings of a new projected force that the Russians haven’t really used in the last century. Particularly useful if they turn their eyes southward to the Eastern Med, Africa or the Middle East.

          • Secundius

            @ EdC.

            I think Putin is hoping for popular support amongst his people, after all he controls the media. I believe Mao said, “Keep you people ignorant, and the’ll believe what ever you tell them”. And I think Putin trying that philosophy here too…

          • EdC

            That has worked well in the past, less so now that we are in the information age spawned by the Internet. After perestroika though, a lot of Russians learned that the “news” they had been fed for 3 generations by Pravda, TASS, etc. were propaganda. They’ve traveled a bit now, seen the silliness for what it was and are asking a few awkward questions. Admittedly, a lot of [his] people bought into his opening stories of Russians being persecuted but as more of their children come home in bags from a war that the rest of the world isn’t buying that has faded. He’s got control for now but my belief is that the world has a chance now to completely break Russia as an economically viable country through economic sanctions and embargoes.

          • Sandy

            I was thinking back to my OCS days when their MOSKVA help assault carriers came out – everyone of our instructors were “concerned”..lol…I would agree with your premise, but temper it with their “winged” assault float planes that never, I think, made it past the test phase. They could have changed the game. GOD Bless.

          • EdC

            The Moskvas were primarily ASW platforms although the number of helicopters they carried could have been a potent air assault group core as they improved their helos. I think they tried Yaks but they didn’t pan out as survivable against the carrier planes and the emerging Harriers. That has been their problem and, I think, insurmountable challenge. A single unit with sailors, troops, amphibious craft, fixed/rotary wing aviation, escorts, naval weapons, ground weapons, missiles, artillery, yada, yada, yada. So many systems, calibers, parts, operators, officers, political oversight, stretches them too far for effective use. Who commands? Who orders all those parts? Who sets priority for resupply? Is the Captain a fighter or a driver? Is the assault element commander THE CO or a subordinate of the Ship or Task Group?

          • Sandy

            the Political Officer, of course! LOL….GOD Bless

          • EdC

            ALWAYS!

          • Secundius

            @ Sandy.

            Well actually, it’s not as farfetched as it seems. The Imperial Japanese Navy deployed three Aichi M6A1 (AM-24) Seiran [Clear Sky Stormy] Attack Float Planes on I-400 class Submarines during the latter part of WW2. Two audacious plan were scheduled but not carried out, because the war ended. One was for three I-400 Submarines to destroy the Panama Canal locks from both the Atlantic side and Pacific side in a coordinated attack. The second was to drop the Japanese U-235 Atomic Bomb on San Francisco, “kamikaze” style…

          • Secundius

            @ Sandy.

            The problem is, most of the Russian Shipyards are in to Neglect or Disrepair, They have to “cannibalize” on yard to fix another. The companies or State Factories that maintained those yards, no longer exist. I suspect that’s one reason for their push on Crimea and NOW Ukraine. That why their actively looking at the former Baltic States, what use to be East Germany, Poland. They can’t fix what they have, because nobody know’s how to anymore. The War is just an excuse, “Window Dressing”…

          • EdC

            That is my impression as well. Even with the French building them you cannot just grab the keys load a few hundred sailors onboard and magically have operating sensors suites, functional damage control procedures, an understanding of air operations, etc. Then there’s the whole question of infrastructure support necessary to keep a group operational with integrated air-ground-armor-artillery-naval units. It don’t happen overnight. I actually think Russian readiness and budgeting would have been negatively impacted by trying to finish fitting those ships out, training the personnel and working-up of an operational amphibious group.

      • Secundius

        @ Sandy.

        The United States had an Embargo around Cuba since 1963. But it didn’t stop Canada and Mexico from trading with them. To paraphrase “Money Talk, Embargo Walks”…

    • Hollywood

      The subs belongs to Vietnam, and the Vietnamese government contracted the Dutch to bring them to Vietnam. Oh by the way, the Vietnamese is buying the Dutch’s Sigma naval ships too. Dude you shouldn’t talk if you don’t have any clue, makes you look stupid.

      • Secundius

        @ Hollywood.

        I suspect another reason why the Dutch were chosen, was there Long Colonial Interests in that region of the World for Centuries. And they could be trusted…

        • EdC

          It is interesting that the Scandinavians have the bulk of the heavy-liftship capacity. Even the USN has had to contract them for moving hulls around the world.

          • Secundius

            @ EdC.

            I guess it’s more cost effective to Hire Out, then it is too Own and Maintain your own…

          • EdC

            Probably true. Unfortunately, cost effectiveness, like political correctness, is dragging us towards mediocrity.

          • Secundius

            @ EdC.

            If the US. Navy were ever to acquire one, it would probably be Hauling BP, MOBILE, or EXXON Oil Drilling Platforms from one site to an other. If Congress, were ever ask to Cough-Up to funds to actually build one…

      • EdC

        You’re what, 9 or something? Read up on weapons transfers and how they are tracked from manufacture to end-user. Maybe you don’t understand that when we say “Dutch” we mean people who live in The Netherlands which is part of the EU. Which is why I asked the deceptively simple question of whether this was a sanction violation. It has nothing to do with Vietnam buying Dutch-built ships. Pull your head out and people will consider you as something credible.

        • Hollywood

          simple misunderstanding. No harm done.

  • Secundius

    At least the Vietnamese have one advantage over the Russian’s. The Vietnamese crews aren’t going to be Banging Their Heads Into Anything/Everthing…

    • Luong the Viet

      What do you mean by this?

      • Secundius

        Luong the Viet.

        I’ve never a Non-American/Vietnamese Person that was over 170.2cm Tall…

        • Luong the Viet

          Ohh, I get it. I’m 5 ft 9 inches tall so what’s that in the metric system?

          • Secundius

            @ Luong the Viet.

            I believe ~175.3cm. I’m not trying to be offensive, Sir. I’ve meet several Nice Vietnamese people, including Nguyen Ngoc Loan and his family. I worked with 3rd-generation American-Vietnamese Guy named Tri and his brother. But I forgot his brothers name over the years, Both of them were over 6-feet tall (185?cm.)…

          • Luong the Viet

            I don’t care if you are racist against us Viets so no need to apologize. I was just curious by what you meant in the above comment.

            So do you think there will be war in the Pacific? I really hope china will collapse from within and break into 1,000 smaller pieces. I hate these chinese Nazis.

            I hope you don’t mind answering but are you originally from Europe?

          • Secundius

            @ Luong the Viet

            My mother was a War Bride of WW2, her family lived in Nazi-Occupied Hungary, my grandfather on my mother side fought at the Battle of Stalingrad as a forced conscript. My mother was Raped, twice by the Russian’s and later immigrated to Canada. My father was 3rd generation American. And his family immigrated from somewhere in Eastern Europe in the early 1800’s. I know very little about my father family history, other than the fact it was “Shaddy”…

          • Luong the Viet

            Wow! Thanks for sharing. History has dealt us all very cruelly.

            I visited Budapest twice and LOVE it! Hungarians are very beautiful and nice people.

          • Secundius

            @ Luong the Viet.

            I’ve never been to Hungary, the closest I got was Vienna, Austria back in 1969. My sister has been to Vietnam twice, once to Saigon (I know, Ho Chi Minh City). But according to my sister, even the locals don’t call it that. And the other Hanoi. She Loved the People and the Food, but hated the Traffic. She said it not uncommon for a score of people per day to get killed just trying to cross the street…

          • Luong the Viet

            Saigon will always be Saigon, never hcm city. I pray for a Free Vietnam with no communist scums or dictatorship. You are always welcomed to our ancient land.

            And come visit your ancestral homeland soon. Hungary is one of the most BEAUTIFUL nations I’ve been in. Hungarians are also Asians, too! Study how your ancestors came to Europe from Asia thousands of years ago.

          • Hollywood

            Even if one day the communist government no longer rule Viet Nam, I still would not want the 3 stripes flag of the former regime fly in Viet Nam. There will be a new flag design to accommodate all Vietnamese, not just the South regime flag.
            Beside it’s not the Vietnamese government that Vietnam worry about, it’s the powerful Chinese commie to the North that you should be worrying about for Vietnam.

          • Secundius

            @ Hollywood.

            I agree, the South Vietnamese, while technically Democratic. Was Corrupt to the Extreme. The Yellow in the flag meant Empire and the three Red Strips meant the three Geographical Regions in the Country, also Corrupt…

          • Hollywood

            Technically the South regime called themselves democratic but there was never an election where a president was voted in by the people. From the Diem regime to the Thieu regime, they were all either installed by the CIA or came into power through violent coup d’etat.

          • Secundius

            @ Hollywood.

            I’m was already aware of that and I’m not disputing it either???

          • Hollywood

            I’m just saying it so that others who don’t yet know the real situation in Vietnam back then.

          • Luong the Viet

            The evil Vietcong bastards will soon come to a quick and VIOLENT END at the just hands of the Vietnamese people and we will soon re-establish a prosperous and just Free Vietnam. In JESUS’ holy name. Amen.

          • Luong the Viet

            LIE!!! Elections were held from Day 1 of the Free Republic!! Unfortunately, this could NOT be true of the communist North or any communist dictatorship. Whatever problem the Free South had, it was NOTHING compared to the communist dictatorship.

            Look at Vietnam today. The people ALL HATE the communists like you “hollywood” (and don’t pretend that you’re not a Vietcong because I know you are one). They all WANT the return of the Free Republic back to Vietnam. Soon, you Vc scums will be fleeing for your lives.

          • Hollywood

            Diem, your brother, was installed by the Vatican and the CIA. because they knew full well HCM will win an election. History don’t lie bro.

          • Luong the Viet

            Whatever problem the Free South had, it was NOTHING compared to the communist dictatorship.

            Look at Vietnam today. The people ALL HATE the communists . They all WANT the return of the Free Republic back to Vietnam.

          • Luong the Viet

            I don’t care about flags or symbols as long as they do not present filthiness or injustice. But the current red flag with golden star does not represent our Vietnamese people one bit and must absolutely be removed!!!

            Hopefully, Vietnam will be a Christian (non-Catholic) nation in the near future so maybe we will have a Bible on our new flag? God-willing. Amen.

          • Hollywood

            Forget your Christian Vietnam, if you like Christianity so much you can move to the Middle east. Vietnam heritage is non-Christian and non-middle eastern Jewish heritage.
            Imagine an Asian country that follow an alien heritage such as the middle east. Unimaginable coming from a mouth of a Viet.

          • Luong the Viet

            With God YAHWEH’s help, Vietnam WILL become a True Christian nation in the near future.

          • Hollywood

            Is yahweh a Vietnamese word? No, so Vietnamese don’t need a Middle eastern yahweh, don’t need it then , don’t need it now or ever.
            Vietnam needs a yahweh as much as Israel needs an Allah.
            Thank you come again.

          • Luong the Viet

            YAHWEH is the name of our common God who created the whole Universe and He’s the one whom everyone, Vietnamese included, should worship. Thank you very much.

          • Magillah

            It’s great to know that I have Zion Brother’s and Sister’s living in Vietnam, too.

          • Luong the Viet

            Thank you, brother for your kind words. When the communist regime falls in Vietnam, we will be a very godly nation and all of God’s holy people will be welcomed to our ancient and blessed nation. Amen.

          • Hollywood

            Can you elaborate how will Vietnam turn into a yahweh nation given over 95% don’t follow a foreign middle eastern heritage? A bible in one hand and a sword in the other? LOL that was so 13th century bro., smart people now abandoned middle eastern false beliefs in drove-just look at European abandoning the church left and right. LOL
            No wonder the communist took over since at least they still acknowledge Vietnamese heritage.

          • Luong the Viet

            Stop saying that this is a ME heritage!!! You are extremely ignorant.

            Communists acknowledge Vietnamese culture and heritage? HAHHAHAHAHAA!!! Man, you are so ignorant!!! Commies bastards HAVE NO culture!!! They SOLD Vietnam to the chinese commies, you ignominious!!!

          • Hollywood

            it is a ME heritage. Created by the ME, for the ME. Just called a spade a spade bro. It is ME heritage, 100% ME. Vietnam is nowhere near the ME and VN have her own heritage. No need to bring in some failed ME heritage to VN.

          • Luong the Viet

            NO SIR!!! THERE IS ONLY ONE GOD AND HIS NAME IS YAHWEH!!! HE HAS NO NATIONALITY OR ETHNICITY!!!

            And He is whom we must all worship. Are you trying to deny me my right of worship?

          • Hollywood

            yes and his name is not yahweh the middle eastern rat.

          • Luong the Viet

            THUONG-DE YAHWEH SE LAM VUA CUA VIET-NAM!!!
            VIET-NAM CONG-HOA MUON NAM!!!
            PHAI GIET HET VIET-cONG BAN NUOC!!!
            Amen.

          • Hollywood

            Ngoc Hoang Thuong De yes. yahweh NO. You don’t even get along with your own fellow religion, the Catholic….LOL

          • Luong the Viet

            You are a typical ignorant Vietcong. Roman Catholicism = Satanism just like Vietcong = Satanism.

            True Christianity = only road to Heaven.

            Hieu chua?

          • Hollywood

            You have way too much issues, you are suffering from delusion. Seeks help bro.

          • Luong the Viet

            You are soooo ignorant. Please study the Holy Bible and history. There’s your help, my dear Vietcong.

          • Hollywood

            LOL calling me a VC and you don’t even know who I am. Typical VNCH south regime response. No need to study the bible since it’s written by illiterate ME and Vatican men to their liking. beside which VERSION of the bible should I read? Why so many revison? Did yahweh changed his mind or made boo boo that much to cause revisions after revisions? How come the book of Thomas not included? yahweh changed his mind? made mistake? LOL LOL
            Thank you come again.

          • Hollywood

            Yes only ignorant people read the fake man made bible of yahweh, smart people use it as toilet paper.

          • Jabberwacky

            @ Battle of the Witz’s.

            War over, no more Battling between Hollywood’witz and Luong the Viet’witz.

          • Luong the Viet

            THUONG-DE YAHWEH MUON NAM!!!
            VIET-NAM CONG-HOA MUON NAM!!!
            PHAI GIET HET VIET-cONG BAN NUOC!!!
            Amen.

          • Luong the Viet

            The Vatican? I say NUKE the evil Great Whore of Revelation 17!!! GOD YAHWEH FOREVER!! Amen.

          • Hollywood

            I’m not denying your right to worship, you can even worship a cow for all I care. But YOU are the one that deny others to worship their own religion, You wanted to turn Vietnam into a middle eastern failed state that follow a desert yahweh. Now tell me who’s denying whom?

          • Hollywood

            And who created your yahweh? Don’t tell me in the beginning yahweh just crawled out from some hole or …I know …I know… how about ME illiterates created yahweh because they don’t have answers for anything ? And to this day a Viet like you is still a bigger illiterate to follow a ME cow religion.
            BTW I don’t worship a made up cow yahweh.. is that El ? El the cow? yahweh the El? El the yahweh? yahweh the cow?

          • Secundius

            @ Luong the Viet.

            If you restrict Religious Freedom, then your no better then the Regime you replaced…

          • Luong the Viet

            Stop assuming. I restrict no one.

          • Hollywood

            Hey how about a Qur’an on the Vietnamese flag instead of the bible? After all the Muslims worshipped the same yahweh…no? Hihihi
            Allah willing.

          • Harry_Hogfart

            Ha ha ha ha he said Vienna like in Vienna Sausage, a silly little greasy two inch thing like your penis

          • Luong the Viet

            You hear that, white trash? That’s me in bed with your beautiful White sister giving the best time of her life. I’m doing my part in destroying her pathetic race 🙂

          • Harry_Hogfart

            I don’t have a sister so obviously once again your masturbating alone dreaming of raping a women

            ha ha ha if you held your wallet in your other hand you wold have a dinky dong in each hand, a real two fisted whacker

          • Luong the Viet

            Ohh, I’m sorry, that must be your female cousin. Hey, welcome back, trash. For a second there, I thought you committed suicide because you didn’t want to live to see your pathetic race becoming extinct. Just hold on there, we’re doing our best at it 🙂

            HAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!! Within 100 years, no more of you trash, loser wanker trash HAHAHAHAHAAA!!!!

          • Harry_Hogfart

            Dude stop adding inches to your body measurements it’s childish

        • Luong the Viet

          I’m 1.7526 meter? Medium height?

          Smaller people make the best soldiers (THINK: smaller targets) 🙂

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  • Unlike the Russians, the Vietnamese will be comfortable inside the subs for they find the head space quite roomy.

    • Secundius

      @ Warrior Pilgrimage.

      The Russians, lie the Chinese like to Mass Produce Everything and Anything. Their biggest problem is Quality Control, and no more so in the Shipbuilding. They also love to Cut Corners in Shipbuilding, why have it work well. When “almost” as well will works’…

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  • VIC

    I am only…5feet shy in height and a Vietnamese 100%. Yet, thru: thick and thin of wars, get shot at by Khmer Rouge a few hundreds of times in Cambodia, chased by US hueys in Thai territory with their non-stop firing machine guns…and I am still ..safe and sound today. Tell me if a Vietnamese is not a …good soldier, no matter what side of front-line he is on. No wonder VN still exists today after so many wars-Proudly-

  • VIC

    You, over-sea Vietnamese never tasted the horror of war when China invades North VN in 1979. There were a lot of Viet soldiers sacrificing their lives in that period just to keep the chinks at bay. Please do not label North VN to China if you don’t know the truth…

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