Home » Aviation » Foggo: U.S. Navy Forces in Europe Sufficient to Handle Threats — But Only With Strong Collaboration With Allies


Foggo: U.S. Navy Forces in Europe Sufficient to Handle Threats — But Only With Strong Collaboration With Allies

USS Forrest Sherman (DDG-98) pulls into Reykjavik, Iceland on Sept. 22, 2018. US Navy Photo

REYKJAVIK, ICELAND – The head of naval forces in Europe is satisfied with the increased presence he’s seen in his theater this year, but he stressed that the U.S. will also have to rely on its allies and partners to counter a growing threat.

2018 brought a noticeable uptick in naval presence in Europe, after Adm. James Foggo and other leaders have sounded the alarm about Russia’s increased submarine activity and aggression towards its neighbors. This spring, Foggo, who commands U.S. naval forces in Europe and Africa, had carrier USS Harry S. Truman (CVN-75) and most of the strike group’s escorts, as well as two of the three ships in the Iwo Jima Amphibious Ready Group, in his theater during their regularly scheduled deployments. Now the Truman CSG is back in Europe now after a short visit to its Virginia homeport, and the entire Iwo Jima ARG has returned to Europe for NATO exercise Trident Juncture.

As the Navy has pushed its Dynamic Force Employment (DFE) concept – that the fleet should be strategically predictable but tactically unpredictable – the shakeup in deployment patterns has so far solely benefitted U.S. 6th Fleet at the expense of U.S. 5th Fleet in the Middle East.

Foggo told USNI News on Oct. 16 that the bump in U.S. naval presence has allowed him to work with more partners and increase the level of sophistication of those interactions and training events.

For example, Trident Juncture was not originally planned to have a carrier strike group participate. The live exercise is largely an amphibious and logistics exercise: surging troops into Norway and sustaining them ashore as they fight to protect Norway from a border invasion. But with the addition of Truman, Foggo said the exercise can now include the element of a carrier strike group providing top cover for Marines heading ashore, as well as provide sea control and anti-submarine warfare to protect the entire coalition activity.

“Having the carrier gives us tremendous flexibility: it gives us an air wing which is very robust, capable of protecting itself, capable of refueling itself, and operating with the other NATO air assets in the North Atlantic theater,” Foggo said.

“We’re not done yet – when Trident Juncture is over, we’re going to send [Truman] someplace else,” Foggo said, adding later that Truman was expected to remain in Europe for the rest of the deployment.
“The good thing about Dynamic Force Employment is, nobody knows where she’s going to go, so it’s going to be a surprise that keeps potential adversaries on the back of their heels. Obviously we have a plan, but we don’t reveal that plan. And that’s part of what DFE is all about.”

Of course the Harry S. Truman Carrier Strike Group will go home at some point, likely by the end of the calendar year, and the Iwo Jima ARG is expected to return home after the exercise, having completed a full six-month deployment in the first half of this year. Foggo did not say what he expected from the next CSG and ARG deployments from the East Coast, but he did note the many other assets he had permanently in 6th Fleet.

“I’m pretty comfortable now with having a robust command ship that is state of the art – so USS Mount Whitney (LCC-20) is equivalent to Blue Ridge (LCC-19); wasn’t always that way, she was overhauled – and having the four destroyers forward-deployed in Rota, Spain, who are doing not just the integrated air defense mission and [ballistic missile defense] mission, but they’re also doing everything that a Burke-class destroyer can do in terms of anti-air warfare, maritime domain awareness and anti-submarine warfare. So at this point in time I don’t see a need to ask for anything else, I think we’re doing pretty well,” Foggo said when asked by USNI News what else he needs in his increasingly important corner of the globe.

“The other thing that we have that other alliances or other potential adversaries don’t have is we have friends,” he continued.
“And friends come with tools and capacity and capability. And some of our best friends in the alliance are pretty good at anti-submarine warfare – the United Kingdom, for example. The French, for example. The Norwegians, for example. So working together we get that synergy and we’re much stronger as a team.”

Later that day, speaking at a Vardberg Association event at the Nordic House in Reykjavik, Foggo said that 22 of the 28 other countries in NATO have navies of various sizes and with various capabilities.

“Some are very large, like the Royal Navy, like the French Navy, like the Spanish Navy, Norwegian Navy. And so we’re working together in this combined arms game, particularly in undersea warfare, and that is where I believe there is a significant threat,” he said.

But, he added, some like the Baltic navies are smaller but have expertise in niche capabilities like mine countermeasures.

“One of the things that I’ve encouraged them to do is to continue to put capital investment into manned systems and unmanned systems to maintain that competitive edge in mine countermeasures, mine warfare, because it takes a little while for other nations to come into the fight and to bring the kit that would be necessary to do mine sweeping operations to restore access” if an adversary were to mine any chokepoints in Europe.

Offering an example of NATO struggling to overcome mine warfare challenges, Foggo continued, “from my own personal experience as the operations officer for Odyssey Dawn/Unified Protector during the Libya campaign, Muammar Gaddafi decided that he was going to sow four mines into the approaches to Misrata. Misrata was a modern-day Stalingrad: he cut off electricity, cut off medical supplies, cut off water. People were miserable. And humanitarian nations and humanitarian organizations wanted to help. … so they put things on ships from Benghazi, which was friendly territory, and they drove into Misrata and dropped off those supplies. Gaddafi had special forces that used rigid-hull inflatable boats – they didn’t have a mine-laying capability so they put an old Soviet-era mine on the rigid-hull inflatable boat, and these guys were brave because a lot of them died – they drove out to the approaches to Misrata, pulled out their commando knife and slashed the hull of the rigid-hull inflatable boat, and it sunk and deployed the mine. Those four mines shut us down in the approach to Misrata, we did not have the capability resident in the force because we did not think it was going to be a problem.”

Foggo said other niche capabilities in European militaries would be vital to support early stages of a conflict, if one were to break out. One such capability, also informed by his previous experiences, is refueling aircraft. During Odyssey Dawn, he said, NATO only had six tankers in theater to support early strikes in Libya. The United States brought 140 more in within a couple of weeks, but the six were insufficient ahead of the U.S. being able to flow its forces into place. Foggo said he hoped the ongoing Trident Juncture exercise would identify those kinds of capabilities that NATO is short on, to help inform plans for future exercises and operations.

  • thebard3

    Or in other words, ‘not sufficient, need help’.

  • omegatalon

    Everything will depend on the Mid-Term elections because a Republican controlled Congress will afford the Trump Admin to lay down the law with NATO and force everyone in the continent to spend their share on the equipment necessary; if Democrats win control of the House or Senate then the Russians can do just about anything they want.

    • vetww2

      EXACTLY.

    • Rocco

      Well I agree on that standpoint , however all Republicans want to do is make it hard for the middle class to survive!! Especially on the local level!

      • vetww2

        Nonsense, Typical lefty comment. The complexity goes to how good “middle class” positions can be developed. Surely, they are not created by the middle class! We need support of our great companies to achieve that.

        • Rocco

          Screw you !!! Lefty comment !! Yes we can support great companies that don’t exit the US because labor is cheaper as well as taxes etc!! Don’t get me started fake WW-2 vet!!

          • Go Trump.

          • Rocco

            Yeah the Chump!!

          • vetww2

            I knew it. A foul mouth sheep.

          • Rocco

            Bahhh!!🐑🐏.

          • vetww2

            Do you agree with my assessment of Presidents TRUMP and CLINTON?

          • vetww2

            YOUR perspicacity matches your ignorance. Look up my army Serial Number 12237125. Incidentally slug, the 1(one) stands for volunteer.

          • Rocco

            I’m ignorant !!! Fuck you!! Your a fake I know not one WW2 vet that goes in blogs ! Yet you should be about 92 + ! Most at this age don’t even go on line or know how to!!! GFYS!!

          • vetww2

            I’m 91+2/3. Retired as Navy’s Director of R&D Development, after 30 years, in’94, you SLUG. Incidentally Every member of my VFW post is a TRUMP fan. Editors, where are you?

          • Rocco

            Yeah sure!! Good for you!! Your probably the reason why our Navy is in a shambles!! All the money on taxpayers dime wasted on R&D especially the LCS & Ford class carriers! You behave like a 19 yr old !!

          • vetww2

            I fought LCS and V-22 for 10 years, losing out to the lobbyists.

          • Rocco

            Then you didn’t do your job!!

    • PolicyWonk

      Riiiiiiight… Based on what analysis? Unfortunately, Mr. Trump hasn’t done anything to help the situation improve.

      The WSJ (the obvious bastion of liberalism ;-D) recently published an editorial that observes that for the first time in US history, we have a POTUS who’s performance as chief executive has only gotten worse, while every one of his predecessors clearly improved.

      It is notable that conservatives of today have claimed the USA is more respected now than a mere few years ago, yet Vladimir Putin is giving gleeful speeches about the fast demise of US moral, diplomatic, and global leadership.

      Since Putin never gave such a speech about or during Obama’s administration (nor any of his predecessors), can we classify this as yet another “win” for Trump (its more like a “win” for Putin, but I digress)?

      In short – the Russians obviously (and vocally) already feel they they can do anything they want. But somehow, its all going to be the democrats fault that this administration’s blatant incompetence has deteriorated the position of the USA globally?

      Good luck with that!

      • Chesapeakeguy

        What analysis? How about your beloved Obama practically bending over while he confided in and to Russia’s president Medvedev that he will be able to do more for them when he won re-election? How about Obama doing nothing when Russia basically invaded Ukraine and took over the Crimea? How about that “line in the sand” in Syria? So what that Putin is giving speeches that spew garbage that isn’t true? He’s a damned Russian! That’s what they do, because that’s what they have ALWAYS done. How did that ‘reset button’ work when your recent candidate and then-SecState Clinton proffered it so publicly? You could see the Russians practically pleasuring themselves over their prospects, which they immediately proceeded to exploit to their benefit. Geezz man, wake up..

        • muzzleloader

          And what about the five terrorist leaders that Obama released in exchange for the traitor Bergdal?
          All five of them are back in operation as terrorists!

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Indeed. But let’s try to not confuse him with undeniable facts.

  • Curtis Conway

    Perhaps a National Security Cutter next time, particularly in BALTOPS. A good shakedown in the Northern Latitudes would be good for the NSCs.

    A shoehorning of Standing NATO Maritime Groups in the Exercises, or they be the center of the exercise, would be a good surprise.

    Operations above the Arctic Circle for every battlegroup should be contemplated if the schedule will permit even for a short period. It is more than just an education. Go ahead and get ready for the Blue Nose Certificates.

    Concerning tankers and aerial tanker support, the NATO Allied Tankers should participate to the extent possible. The USAF tankers are a busy bunch and cannot always be there but usually are.

    The NATO Alliance should consider a Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA) organization similar to AEW E-3s at Gelsenkirchen, or NATO Alliance Air Transport capability.

    Way to go. Anyone who can ride north of the Arctic Circle during bad weather has my respect.

    • RunningBear

      “The NATO Alliance should consider a Maritime Patrol Aircraft (MPA)
      organization similar to AEW E-3s at Gelsenkirchen, or NATO Alliance Air
      Transport capability.”, is an excellent opportunity to coordinate the data sets from each individual aircraft in this era of highbandwidth networking comms. The GPS references of buoy locations and tracking data would easily lend itself to the correlation of the identification characteristics based on those same geo-locations. This would be a great timely exchange of similar data sets from the different aircraft systems. Gaining a library of tracking data in those latitudes would be invaluable in localizing individual boats and typical tracks.Those silent predators would be tracked from dock to dock and identify which toilet was flushed!, no longer hiding in the dark!
      IMHO
      Fly Navy
      🙂

      • Curtis Conway

        Thank you RunningBear. ASWOC Troops Rock!

    • Rocco

      Agreed ….A good starting point for the class to get some notoriety & exposure. Heh maybe the Navy will choose a good class for FFG/X that’s staring them in the face instead of wasting time for a new design!!

  • RunningBear

    528 F-35s in EurAsia should be a good starting point from which NATO can build their joint efforts in defense. As NATO squadrons and airforces, the development of the infrastructures will be of great advantage when supporting forces arrive to bolster their defense capabilities. The networks developed will be of benefit for all military joint efforts.
    IMHO
    Fly Navy
    🙂

    • Rocco

      How do you come up with 528??

      • RunningBear

        Europe/Asia (a geographical grouping of stealth aircraft)

        UK -138, Turkey – 100, Italy – 60+30, Norway – 52, Israel – 50, Netherlands – 37, Belgium – 34, Denmark – 27 = 528+/-

        7 of these 8 countries are NATO members.

        A significance of the grouping would be the infrastructure supporting all 3 types with common; parts, maintenance support, data interfaces for allied (USA) aircraft.

        At present, there are 8 “other” NATO countries who “could” budget for at least one squadron of F-35s each.

        The F-35A/C can carry internal 2 50kt. B61-12 nuclear bombs, each.
        IMHO
        Fly Navy
        🙂

        • Rocco

          It’s not gonna reach that number!! Italy for one has cancelled further F-35 procurement. Turkey forgetta bout it!! 🤐 . Norway is cut in half I believe.

          • RunningBear

            …..so what was your prognostication on Belgium? or better yet Poland?

            I’ll bet one warm Texas beer, Poland will be the next NATO member to buy F-35s!

            Finland???

            320+….the death spiral continues!!

            IMHO
            Fly Navy
            🙂

          • Rocco

            I’m betting they go with the blk 70 F-16 , they all use them & don’t have to change much support equipment. Except for the F-35B not everyone needs an F-35!!

          • RunningBear

            At 3,000+, yes everyone doesn’t need a F-35 but the F-35 airbase infrastructure installation could be equal or more important than just another squadron of F-35 planes. The training for command, operations, maintenance could be indispensable in time of war. The other aspect of this is that having one F-35 squadron (per budget) doesn’t preclude other 4G aircraft. The check hasn’t reached my table yet but the Blk70 could be more expensive than the F-35A Blk 3F/4.1.

            Teaming with other NATO countries with F-35 squadrons into a F-35 airforce could be a “Real and Present Danger” to aggressor nations and a substantial defense!
            IMHO
            Fly Navy
            🙂

          • Rocco

            Agreed…. However some NATO countries it will be cheaper to operate & train in the long run, not to mention parts acquisition etc. Remember it’s not just the plane it’s also the weapons that needs to be acquired . Eventually the blk 70 will come down in price. Plus the savings of same support equipment & hangar space

          • RunningBear

            There are possibly 3 other NATO countries who could consider the earlier F-16 Blocks (less expensive) and the F-35 common weapons. This could be greatly influenced “if” India selects the F-16V. The restart of the F-16 production line with the desired capacity would refresh the sub-vendor capabilities and support for the earlier Blocks.

            The other 3 NATO countries that could lead to F-35 squadrons are Canada, Germany and France. I have no expectations other than the leverage of the B61-12 certification and they may only invest in 1,2,3 squadrons each, for the “common” NATO good. The Brits may entice those three also, if they get on board with the “new” Eurofighter (6G+++) with their F-35s as interim aircraft.

            Whether an F-16 airforce or a F-35 squadron, the commonality of NATO will be it’s strength against the aggressors.
            IMHO
            Fly Navy
            🙂

          • Rocco

            Agreed…..I believe the production line for the V has already begun in South Carolina plant. You can count Canada out on any purchase of anything!!

          • E1 Kabong

            Canada, once it replaces their idiotic PM, will buy F-35,s since they are a Tier 3 partner.

          • E1 Kabong

            The F-16 is 1970’s era technology.

            Good luck attacking SA-22’s, SA-20’s, etc, with those.

          • E1 Kabong

            I’d take that bet.

          • E1 Kabong

            Israel is buying MORE.

            The RAAF is studying whether or not to replace their Super Hornets with more F-35’s.

            The JASDF is looking at buying F-35’s for their carriers.

  • Ser Arthur Dayne

    “One of the things I’ve encouraged our partners to do is mine warfare” …. Brilliant.

    Because we can’t actually do that lol. Mine Countermeasures Package for the win!

  • vetww2

    What threats in Europe? We cannot police the world while we expend $$$$$$ to support useless (even hostile at times) organizations like NATO and UN. They must change or we must set up new treaty relationships.

  • PolicyWonk

    …but he stressed that the U.S. will also have to rely on its allies and partners to counter a growing threat…
    =====================================================
    then maybe he should stress that it’s less than helpful for the POTUS to insult our allies, and/or otherwise toss ’em under the bus in front of the Russians…

    • Rocco

      Trump has a big mouth enter foot!!😬

      • PolicyWonk

        Anyone reading my postings from just after the election or his inauguration knows that I wished the man well (because I didn’t vote for him: I voted for John Kasich). Regardless, I wanted to see him as a successful POTUS, because as an American citizen I want the nation to prosper and do well regardless of whoever is sitting in the Big Chair. I didn’t vote for him, because I considered him thoroughly unqualified and a likely incompetent who is unfit to lead.

        Unfortunately, he hasn’t done anything yet to demonstrate otherwise.

        • E1 Kabong

          ” I didn’t vote for him, because I considered him thoroughly unqualified and a likely incompetent who is unfit to lead.

          Unfortunately, he hasn’t done anything yet to demonstrate otherwise.”

          Sounds like O-bummer.

        • Chesapeakeguy

          He has SUCCESSFULLY put those ‘allies’ on notice that they had better ante up when it comes to their OWN defense. Yeah, how DARE an AMERICAN President actually look out for the best interests of his OWN country. It sure is rare. And long overdue. It is absolutely refreshing to have someone in the Oval Office who is not engaged in prolonged ‘apology tours’ trashing the very country that elected a non-white male for the first time in its history. TWICE at that..

          • PolicyWonk

            Oh, how lovely – the “prolonged apology tour” BRAVO SIERRA. Yawn. Again? It was BRAVO SIERRA before, and it’s still BRAVO SIERRA now.

            How DARE an AMERICAN President? Indeed – how DARE he look out for his business interests and personal profits before the welfare of his nation! Was that long overdue? Because this is the fact of the matter. The HoR’s weren’t corrupt enough, so the Prince Of Graft is a good choice for you?

            Tell me, why is a man who loves brown-nosing the likes of Vladimir Putin and Kim Jong Un so attractive to you? Putin has so much respect for the USA, that he’s gleefully giving speeches about the rapid decline of the USA as a global, diplomatic, or moral leader. The WSJ says Trump is the only POTUS in history to perform his job *lousier* as time went on, while all of his predecessors *improved*. Trump can’t be bothered to do what POTUS’s are expected to do, like read the dossiers his aids prepare for him before meeting global leaders and making himself look like a jackass; how about reading the budget summary before singing it? How about understanding the basics of the policies he supposedly supports, but knows *nothing* about?

            Even if you *like* what he’s trying to do, he’s *still* incompetent.

            Donald Trump, sadly, is nothing to brag about.

          • Rocco

            Kudos

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Yes, those apology tours that the likes of you and the other Obama groupies obviously wet yourselves over. Whine about them all you want, that won’t detract from the truth of it. But have at it. LOL..

            Unlike you, I don’t need opinion pieces in news rags to determine how I feel or think about anyone or anything. Your dependence on Dem talking points confirms that, but if you can’t think for yourself, what can anyone else expect from you?. I say again, so what that Putin continues to do what he ALWAYS has done in not cheerleading about the USA? Evidently he has YOUR ear. I guess that ‘reset’ button is something you reminisce about fondly. But do tell: how did that work out? Take your time, I’ll wait..Maybe some of your fellow Obama groupies in here can help you out?

          • Rocco

            Here he here he!!! Can you two play nice??

          • muzzleloader

            I would give you 100 upvotes if I could. Well said.

          • PolicyWonk

            I know you don’t bother reading a lot, because it shows in your postings and opinions.

            Your dependence on GOP propaganda demonstrates you lack knowledge of how this nations government is/was designed to work; how the rest of he planet functions; the consequences of President Dennison’s actions globally; how the economy functions; how diplomacy functions; you have no sense of history, cause and effect, or ability to connect the dots.

            This is why conservatives of today lack credibility. They live in a fact-free zone. And that’s sad, because it does nothing to further the cause of the nation.

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Geezz, you can’t even be original. Of course, we knew that with your party’s talking pints to begin with, but now you have to rely on others (specifically, ME) to provide for you. I reckon I should be flattered. I also recognize and acknowledge your ignorance. But I guess for you that’s a good thing, isn’t it? After all, it is said that “Ignorance is bliss”. Continue to enjoy yourself. It’s kinda fun to watch. Kinda…LOL..

          • PolicyWonk

            Hmmm. Sadly, in your case, denial ain’t merely a river in Egypt: its become a way of life.

            Oh well…

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Wow. Interesting attempt at deflection. No denials have taken place. That your skewed and bizarre world view has been shot down on a public venue like this is merely an indictment of what you choose to believe in. That’s all.

            Run along now…

          • PolicyWonk

            You are right: no denials have taken place, because you already admitted your profound ignorance and made it clear you live in an alternate universe where facts don’t matter.

            Cheers.

          • Chesapeakeguy

            There you go again. Totally dependent on ME to provide for YOU. Geezz, you really ARE a Democrat, aren’t you? LOL..

            Yo PW, this just in. Hillary Clinton is STILL the loser of the 2016 election. Film at 11. You might want to dry them eyes, snowflake. If you can…(snicker)..

          • PolicyWonk

            Your family tree don’t fork much down there in the Chesapeake, eh, guy?

            I voted for a real republican (Kasich), as opposed to the Putin-loving stooge, who’s favorite dictator-idol is now touring the planet gleefully giving speeches (e.g. crapping all over him) about the complete demise of US global leadership (morally, diplomatically, etc.), under his special brand of “management”.

            Cheers.

          • Rocco

            Agreed as did I!! Let’s hope he tries to run again!

          • Chesapeakeguy

            So you wanna bring families onto this? I’ll pass PW. I would never do that to a poster on here. For example, I hear your parents are two of the nicest guys any one would want to meet. I just accept that. 🙂

            I have do doubts that a John Kasich appeals to you. He’s as much ‘Dem-lite’ as any other RINO is. You continue to ignore what Putin and company ALWAYS do regardless of who is on the WH, and that is trash the USA. He certainly didn’t quit when your beloved Hillary gave them that ‘reset button’. It was entertaining to see the Russians trying to contain their laughter over that. I reference again Obama himself practically bending over for then Russian President Medvedev promising Obama’s master Putin that he will be able to do virtually anything and everything for him when he won re-election. I’ll give Trump this: he is engaging n different approaches to this country’s international situations. But he is trying something. Your hero and icon Obama always took the easy way out, as did his predecessors. It was all too much work, it was so much easier to just kick them down the road. I’m surprised the Obama Library is not being constructed in downtown Tehran, given all that Obama did for the ruling mullahs there. He surrendered to them, because that was the east way out. As always…

          • PolicyWonk

            Thank you for the clarification regarding your politics. You are a right-wing cultist that lives in a fact-free, goose-stepping world.

            Got it.

            Thanks.

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Geezz, it took you THIS LONG to figure out I’m not a Demiocrat-worshipping lemming like yourself? Wow. I love the ‘goose stepping’ part. As alluded to earlier in our ‘discussion’, you continue to be unable to proceed in this life without the benefit of the Dem Party talking pints provided to you. And we also know that you depend on ME as well. But that’s OK comrade, we have no other expectations from you. LOL.

          • vetww2

            Well said.

        • vetww2

          On a list of people that I would like as frends, he and Bill Clinton would both be near, or at, the bottom. But as President of the USA, both are at the top.

          • PolicyWonk

            Big exceptions: Clinton left behind the smallest, most efficient, federal government since the Kennedy Administration. The federal budget was balanced, and the national debt was being paid down, and was a highly competent manager of the nations affairs. The current guy? Not a snowballs chance in Hades….

            Clinton was a highly successful POTUS who was and remains very popular despite some of his obvious failings.

            However, one story I can share: My former in-laws live on Martha’s Vineyard, where the Clintons would spend their summer vacations. One of the old family friends (this is a serous Martha’s Vineyard socialite, this woman has multiple Phd’s, and her family is quite wealthy) invited my mother in law, wife, and myself for lunch at the Edgartown Inn, sometime after the Monica affair and (deeply stupid, and failed) impeachment attempt. This lady had been invited to a number of the parties that the Clinton’s attended, met the president a number of times, is/was deeply conservative, and chatted with him at length. Also note, this woman is/was around 70 at the time, and was *still* gorgeous (seriously, this lady must’ve stopped traffic when she was young).

            Having learned to keep my mouth shut and just listen when outnumbered, I quietly made occasional small talk and listened while the ladies prattled on about current events, etc. When asked about President Clinton, she carefully described how brilliant, charming, and funny he was, in addition to pointing out how the guy was deeply conversant over a large range of very complex/diverse topics at an extraordinary level of detail.

            Then my wife asked her how she squared “all of that, given the Monica issue”. She instantly looked my wife directly in the eye, and told her without blinking (to quote): “if he’d whipped it out, I would’ve been on my knees in a second…”.

            My wife and mother-in-law’s jaws both dropped and hit the table. I managed to quietly finish chewing my food, took a quick sip of water, and excused myself to go to the washroom.

            I left the dining room, found the first exit, and walked out the door. Upon that door slamming shut I collapsed on the lawn, laughing so hard it made my sides hurt and eyes water. It took about 5 minutes me to recover, and recompose myself, before I felt I could return to the dining room.

            Ahhh… Good times 😀

          • vetww2

            MY TAKE:,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AS A FRIEND,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,AS A PRESIDENT

            REAGEN,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,..YES
            GEO. H.W. BUSH…………..,YES………………………………YES
            CLINTON………………………..NO……………………………. ..YES
            GEO. W. BUSH……………….YES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,….NO
            TRUMAN,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YES………………………………YES
            NIXON…………………………….NO……………………………….YES?
            KENNEDY……………………….YES……………………………….YES
            TRUMP…………………………….NO,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,YES
            JOHNSON………………………..NO……………………………….NO
            CARTER…………………………..YES………………………………NO

          • Rocco

            Wow!! Lucky you lol

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Sounds like what ALL of you Dems would do, then and now…Tee hee….

          • Rocco

            Evidently you can’t read as he was & is as well as myself in favor of John Hasich!!

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Rocco, unlike you, my reading AND comprehension skills are just fine. That someone supposedly votes for John Kasich (spelled with a ‘K’. You’re welcome!) means nothing to me. So what? They might as well be voting or Hillary, as I’m sure you and yours did.

            Run along now…

          • Rocco

            GFYS & you run along……Off a short peer !!

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Wow Rocco. So….deep. So…..profound. So…..witty. So…..Democrat. But hey, enjoy your time with your nose firmly up PW’s rear end on here. You have the IQ of a house plant and the personality of a bowling pin. I realize all that imagery is way too complicated for your limited intellectual resources, but oh well. Live with it.

          • Rocco

            Aww what’s the matter Cheesecake Bay ??? You jealous?? Last I heard a bowling pin went up your backside!! Why don’t you get a life!! Go back to your mom’s basement!

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Gosh, you’ve become quite the snowflake on here Rocco. You seem obsessed with bizarre sexual matters. Whatever trips your trigger is your business, have at it. I do have a life, but thanks for asking. And tell your mom “Hi” for me. LOL..

          • Rocco

            She said how’s your bowling game going??

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Tell her fine, and please thank her for asking. It’s like being among a bunch of her son’s clones. OK?

          • Rocco

            Lmb

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Yawn.

          • vetww2

            What a great story. I can/t stop laughing whenever I think of it. Thanks. I shall appropriate it (With proper attribution). However, I wonder what she would have said, if the subject was the rapes he (alledgedly) committed?

          • Rocco

            Figured

      • vetww2

        Judge not by appearsnce but by actions and results. ( roughly paraphrasing GEN, PATTON)

        • Rocco

          Yes agreed! How ever look what happened to Patton because of his big mouth regardless what he accomplished!

          • vetww2

            Snakes are always around. Looked in a mirror lately?

          • Ed L

            Patton was murdered

          • Rocco

            Ahhh wrong he died due to injuries from a car accident in Germany after the war!!

          • vetww2

            No nastiness, Rocco, but if you are at all intereted in the facts, I suggest you read “Killing Patton.” by Bill O’Reilly.

          • Rocco

            So him Dieing in Germany was a setup?
            I

        • PolicyWonk

          Judge also, by the results of Patton’s actions (and inability to control his mouth): he was removed from duty for an extended period of time, despite him being one of the most talented battlefield commanders in US history.

          Patton was only restored to full active command at the insistence of Omar Bradley, who had been promoted over him, and had no choice but to micromanage him for the remainder of the war.

          It is arguable that the war would’ve ended earlier if only Patton could’ve found a way to control his mouth and actions. His lack of ability to do so, almost caused a war with the Russians.

          The USA doesn’t need someone who can’t control what comes out of his pie-hole starting a war, simply because they lack the maturity of a spoiled 4 year old.

          • vetww2

            i don’t like to disagree with you, but here, I believe, you are allowing your emotions to supercede your analytical mind. Trump is despicable, BUT, holding my nose, I have to admit that he is a great President. If he had 1/4 the sense of humor of President REAGAN, he would be a sensation.

            Nothing he has done, in any way, will start a war. Aside from the excellant national economy, The dispute with Canada and Mexico is almost over. He has worked wonders with N. Korea, Saudi Arabia and Turkey. China has NO reason to start a war that would, immediately wreck their economy. Russia will stay quiet.
            Iran will renegotiate, soon. My opinion, only.

            Seperately, if you want the real story, I suggest you read, “Killing Patton” by Bill O’Reilly, Great read.

          • PolicyWonk

            Trump is still benefiting from his predecessors economy, because each POTUS inherits the economy of his predecessor – that hasn’t changed. And the massive spending on the part of the GOP (at the cost of staggering new debt) always (and as was predicted by virtually every economist) boosts the economy, as does the loosening of regulations that were put into place after the Great Recession, to prevent another one from recurring.

            When the party’s over, the next recession will likely be far worse than the last one…

            Repeating the obvious mistakes of the recent past isn’t great leadership, and its all there in the CBO report on the Causes Of The Great Recession. Nor has great leadership ever meant being divorced from reality (pathological dishonesty), race-baiting, attacking the free press and US constitution, blatant abuses of power, coddling dictators, embracing nepotism, failing to do ones homework before meeting other global leaders (or understanding the legislation he supposedly supports), referring to fellow Americans as “the enemy”, aligning ones self with fascists/white nationalists, and so on. Nor has a great leader ever presided over the nation and had a Russian leader ever so cheerfully gloat over the loss of American global, diplomatic, or moral leadership. And the problem there, is that our allies agree with him.

            If Mr. Trump had been elected as a democrat, he would’ve been impeached before his first 6 months were completed – and deservedly so. The handful of positive things he is working on are not worth it in my book, given the severity of the damage its obviously doing to this nation.

          • Rocco

            Kudos agreed!! Hopefully John K will try again & the Stupid followers of Trump will see the light at the end of the tunnel!!

          • PolicyWonk

            Agreed. And here’s hoping the light at the end of the proverbial tunnel isn’t a train!

          • Rocco

            Only if your boy Cheesecake by the Bay is waiting for the train!!

          • Chesapeakeguy

            Geezz, you sound like your having erotic dreams. I guess I should be flattered, but I’m not your type. Stick with PW. You two are so much alike. You will no doubt make a nice couple. Why, you can vote together. LOL.

          • PolicyWonk

            Yeah – there’s a piece of work! ;-P

          • Rocco

            The economy is the only thing in his favor!!

          • vetww2

            A fortunate sideline. His removal by Ike and creation of the false army, under his command, completely spooked the Nazis who believed this phony assignment because they knew he was our best Ganeral and must be the Commander of the invasion.

          • PolicyWonk

            Indeed – the Nazi’s were astonished that the mere slap of a soldier would take the finest battlefield commander out of the fight…

            In taking Patton out of the fight and reassigning him to command a phony army comprised of inflatable tanks, trucks, etc., did however make for a great ruse…

          • Rocco

            Not in agreement

          • Rocco

            Agreed

  • Ed L

    The EU/NATO needs to belly up to the bar and pay there fair share. America has been too long footing the bill for Europe. The United States needs to forge an equal and balance alliance with Canada and all of our Neighbors to the South. All the way south to Cape Horn. Right now there is a new CAM trade alliance in North America Time to expand and strive for a true Union of the Americas.

    • vetww2

      SUPER IDEA. IT would follow the Monroe Doctrine, Dump the Dictators, End the migrations and wipe out the drug lords. Hard to implement, but possible with Prez Trump and one more of the same type (but hopefully with a Regan-esque sense of humor).

  • vetww2

    I think the old expression was, “Put up or shut up.”