Home » Foreign Forces » China » Analysis: Is it Time for the U.S. to Take a Position on Scarborough Shoal?


Analysis: Is it Time for the U.S. to Take a Position on Scarborough Shoal?

Scarborough Shoal. NASA Photo

Scarborough Shoal. NASA Photo

Starting in early 2016, Scarborough Shoal suddenly became an issue of serious concern for U.S. officials. According to articles in the press reports information was obtained that strongly suggested that China was about to start turning Scarborough into another artificial island, similar to what they had done in the Spratlys. Apparently, one of the factors that suggested Beijing was about to act was a posting found on a Chinese website that included satellite photographs based on a construction bid proposal that would turn Scarborough into an island base similar to what China has constructed on seven Spratlys Islands.

A modern Scarborough airfield with radar and other modern information, surveillance and reconnaissance (ISR) facilities so close to Philippine bases where U.S. has been granted rotational access by the Philippine government possess obvious strategic issues. As shown in the graphic below from the office of U.S. Sen. Dan Sullivan (R-Alaska), turning Scarborough into a base with air search radars would allow China to have full-time radar coverage over most of Luzon.

Whether this is China’s intent is not known, but Washington reacted as though they thought it was. Whatever information the Department of Defense has it was deemed credible enough to trigger a “full-court” press aimed at dissuading Beijing from taking those steps. Given that Scarborough is ideally located to “control” the northeast exit of the South China Sea and is only 150 nautical miles west of Subic Bay, if it was turned into a PLA base with a jet capable airfield it would enable among other things a credible Chinese South China Sea Air Defense Identification Zone.

scar_sulThe U.S. response included beginning the rotational deployment of a small task force of US Air Force tactical aircraft to the Philippines, the presence operations of the USS John Stennis Carrier Strike Group in the South China Sea for much of March, April and May of 2016, along with a many high-level public statements, the most dramatic of which came from the Secretary of Defense in testimony before the Senate Armed Services committee. Carter was quoted as saying that Scarborough is “a piece of disputed territory that, like other disputes in that region, has the potential to lead to military conflict…That’s particularly concerning to us, given its proximity to the Philippines.” According to New York Times reports, President Obama also mentioned Scarborough Shoal to President Xi Jinping during their meeting on March 31st on the margins of the Nuclear Security Summit:

The stakes are so high that Mr. Obama warned the Chinese leader, Xi Jinping, during their recent meeting in Washington not to move on the Scarborough Shoal or invoke an air defense zone, said an American official who was briefed on the details of the encounter and spoke anonymously because of the diplomatic sensitivities.

In essence, the flurry of activity regarding Scarborough in March, April and May of 2016 was meant to send a clear signal to China that the United States sees Scarborough as being different from the Paracels and Spratlys. Although official U.S. policy of taking no position on the merits of disputed sovereignty claims to features in the South China Sea includes Scarborough Shoal, recent US action suggests that it does in fact have a different unofficial view. Since Scarborough is not in either the Spratly or Paracel chains and is not also claimed by any littoral state other than China and Taiwan, and for almost 50 years was treated as though it was under US jurisdiction, changing the US position on sovereignty over Scarborough would not be a stretch. It is the author’s view that the evidence supports Philippine sovereignty over the Shoal. To this point:

When comparing the Chinese and Philippine cases, evidence of effective occupation is not overwhelming in either case – but, of the two, the Philippines’ case is stronger. Most mariners charted this feature only in order to remain well clear of it since it was a hazard to navigation. Similarly, the presence of itinerant fishermen from either China or the Philippines is legally insufficient to establish a legal presence.

But, past activities by the U.S. Navy and Philippine authorities to survey the Shoal so that it could be safe for shipping, constitute some positive occupation, along with its contemporaneous appearance on Philippine charts. Past actions by the Philippine armed forces to exercise law enforcement jurisdiction in the 1960s, both to eject smugglers and to monitor future movement, show intent to exercise jurisdiction over the atoll.

The past uses of the shoal by the U.S. Navy for military activities and its legal assessment that the atoll was part of the Philippines also support the case that the Republic of the Philippines was exercising sovereignty over the atoll. Even though the Philippines today asserts that its current claims are independent of the territory that was ceded by Spain to the United States, the key point is that the U.S. government considered it to be part of the Philippines, and any “occupying” activities which it undertook can be vicariously attributed to the Philippines because the United States was the legal proxy for the Philippine people until full independence in 1946.

In short, it would not be legally difficult for the U.S. government to persuade itself that the Government of the Philippines does have a superior claim to sovereignty over Scarborough Shoal. The obvious political and security implication of such a judgment would be the US-Philippine Mutual Defense Treaty could be interpreted to cover Scarborough Shoal; an act that hopefully would deter Chinese island building. It is probably not the best time to actually do this while Beijing is still reeling from the Hague arbitral panel findings, and before we learn if Philippine President Duterte is trying to reach a deal with Beijing over access to Scarborough.

But, this is a card that Washington should keep close at hand while waiting to see how things play out. Unless the almost three months of recent US naval and air posturing around Scarborough was simply a bluff, it suggests that Washington has already decided that Scarborough is important enough to the security of the Philippines (and to the United States position in the Philippines) to accept the risks associated with doing something that will really irritate Beijing.

  • sferrin

    This is where China will push hard and watch Washington fold like a wet paper bag.

    • Tony4

      What responsibility do you believe Washington has for deciding who has sovereignty over Scarborough Shoal?

      • sferrin

        The responsibility of an ally as well as it’s own interest.

        • Aussie Andrew

          Time to hand the stolen Diego Garcia back to the original inhabitants then?????

          • sferrin

            Stolen from who? The English?

          • Stolen from who? the original inhabitants

            UNICJ not unclos already rule UK have to hand the stolen Diego Garcia back to the original inhabitants and of course tenant US have to get out …don’t U know?

          • sferrin

            Good luck with that.

          • bad luck for the US…..they must get the he!! out of there

        • Scarborough shoal never Philippines territory under the treaty of Paris Philippines claim it is inside their EEZ only but EEZ do not extend to there is land feature such as rock…..C’MON

      • Scarborough shoal is China territory that’s not disputable
        China claim Scarborough shoal in 1946

        Cairo Declaration, the Potsdam Declaration, and the Yalta Agreement. was sign by both US UK Russian China nd loser Japan in 1946…
        Scarborough shoal never Philippines territory under the treaty of Paris Philippines claim it is inside their EEZ only but EEZ do not extend to there is land feature such as rock

    • life form

      Let the CCP try it then. Washington won’t fold, nor will they invade.
      But see if the CCP survives as rulers of China. They won’t.

  • Andre

    If China starts building on Scarborough, China’s claims to peaceful negotiation cannot be taken seriously.

  • CharleyA

    The Chinese are going to ramp up their building efforts for the next 6 months, until the next US administration is installed. The Obama Administration is not going to engage on this issue unless there is an incident.

    • The Obama Administration is going to engage if there is an incident within 12 nm of Scarborough shoal is call invasion of China …..look up what is treaty of Paris Philippines and see where is the boundary

  • Matt

    The Scarborough Shoal’s importance seems to have surpassed most islands, certainly the most famous shoal in American history already. Why not treat it as such and respond in kind to China’s sneaking around stealing things. Maybe we could sneak around the shoal and sink every thief in the night. Then declare an exclusion zone and build another air base like Diego Garcia ourselves. At least show an equal willingness to take risks and actions to cement what is in the interest of freedom loving humanity.

    • Aussie Andrew

      You are on Diego Garcia courtesy of the British and inhabitants still doing legal work to get you off but the international laws are being broken by Uncle Sam and British as usual; why doesn’t Uncle Sam sign UNCLOS when it talks about it every day but doesn’t support it (unless China disagrees with it).
      Scarborough Chinese Island is going to have lighthouses and runways and maybe even Tropical Island Hotels; the Chinese should have done this 200 years ago but were too busy getting invaded and robbed by Americans, British, French, Germans, Russians, Japanese, Portuguese because they were a peaceful nation that didn’t invade other territories.
      The world has changed and China will have rapid advancement in Military tech; it’s time for Uncle Sam to be sincere and friendly; the 20th century hegemony is coming to an end, the 21st and 22nd centuries will belong to Asia…. including China.
      Scarborough Shoal is Thirteen Thousand Kilometres from New York ; time for Uncle Sam to pull his head in.
      Go and sort out the Middle East instead….. starting with head-choppers in Saudi Arabia.

      • Matt

        Paid Chinese propagandists such as yourself “Aussie”…LOL… only reinforce the very large amount of suspicion of what China actually is attempting to do. Such as invade Taiwan or “smaller” states such as the Philippines and attempting to roll back the region into slavery just like North Korea. You have already failed, in reality.

        • KazuakiShimazaki

          The Chinese actually do have a valid point about UNCLOS. I’ve skimmed the “against” arguments and In essence, the United States cannot accept the slightest degree of giving up its rights for the common welfare. This position is coming to bite the US in its butt.

          • life form

            Yes, there is a valid argument there.
            The Navy says it supports UNCLOS, but there is a stubborn group of congresspeople that won’t ratify it.

        • Such as invade Taiwan or “smaller” states such as the Philippines and attempting to roll back the region …..it only show how barbaric U R and of course uneducated
          1 Taiwan is part of China and is recognize by UN
          2 China never invade Philippines but US and Spain…..and turn Philippines into slavery … don’t U know

          • Noel Cuta

            What China did to Scarborough Shoal (Panacot Island) is already an invasion counter attack.

          • invasion ????? have U find out where is Philippines boundary up to before U want to arguing with others…????..Philippines have the lowest average IQ (86) in asean for a reason

      • life form

        Emperor enforced isolation, burning Zheng He’s fleet, The Taiping Rebellion, the Chinese Civil Wars, the Great Leap Towards Famine,and the Cultural Revolution were excluded from your reasons for Chinese failure to develop. I wonder why?

        Wumao not allowed to mention those impediments? Must blame foreigners? Not Chinese leadership! Oh no! That’s against the law now, right? Everyone must write only in support the party, as of January, yes?

    • 1 Scarborough shoal was claim by China in 1946 under the treaty of Cairo
      2 Scarborough shoal never Philippines territory under the treaty of Paris
      3 Scarborough shoal is China territory that’s not disputable….C’MON

  • Hard Boiled Egg

    I bet US submarines are monitoring around the shoal. haha.

    • Aussie Andrew

      Of course they are…. and being followed very quietly by modern very quiet Chinese submarines and underwater drones.

      • sferrin

        ROFL!!!

      • life form

        China doesn’t have any very quiet submarines. I can see she has plenty of drones, though.

      • LARRY RAINES

        The only quite chicom sub lay on the ocean bottom in chunks. And the only modern one is in some ones dream as he lays there sleeping with his gut bloated from rice.

  • Hugh

    After the International Court finding, and considering it is within Philippine’s 200 nm EEZ, and noting the closeness to the Philippines – any move by China must be stopped.

    • Tony4

      EEZ’s are defined by land, they don’t define land – IOW, the fact that a “rock” is located within an EEZ has no bearing on whether it, as sovereign territory, has the same sovereignty as the EEZ defined by some other sovereign piece of land. Closeness to another country might be supporting evidence in some arbitration case, but China wouldn’t respect that in any event.

      Sovereignty of territory is, in the end, a function of national power. Philippines’ national power is less than China’s, so if China wants Scarborough Shoal they will get it (actually, they already control it). U.S. national power is greater than China’s, so we could do something about this – but what? To pay for, to kill for, to die for – what level of national interest does Scarborough Shoal represent to the U.S.?

      • tpharwell

        Good point. Maybe the ROP would gently push the Chinese aside, if it could. Offer them a Navy and an Air Force. Maybe we will get something in return.

        • FedUpWithWelfareStates

          What? Bananas…

          The Philippines has exactly NOTHING that the U.S. needs, unless you are in the market for a LBFM…

          • tpharwell

            Funny thing. I was just asking myself that same question. Well, let’s see. There is Subic. But that does beg the question, a bit does it not ? What would we want Subic for ? To have a stronger naval presence in the South China Sea, and southeast Asia, generally ? What would we want that for, if the Philippines have nothing we need and mean nothing to us ? Good point. Indeed, why care about what goes on over there at all ?

          • Noel Cuta

            South China Sea is the route of 1/3 of World’s trade ($ % Trillion). Closing the South China Sea is like closing the 1/3 World’s trade route. Japan, South Korea, Philippines and other ASEAN countries, European countries, India, Australia, New Zealnd use the route for international trade. United States has standing mutual defense treaties with Philippines, Japan, and South Korea.

          • la

            its in everyones best interest to keep the worlds sea lanes OPEN for ALL countries of the world. FON period

          • Jeff Fournier

            You have Australia, Taiwan, Philippines, Indonesia, Japan, South Korea and a few other allied countries dependent on US control of these waterways to make sure that China does not play games with other country’s commerce shipments.

          • tpharwell

            You are a little late to this party but nonetheless welcome. The commenter who says that a certain friendly country has nothing we want overlooks the problem raised by countries who can bring us plenty we do not want. Not for nothing are there US military cemeteries in the ROP. Come to think of it, not for nothing did US soldiers die for China in WWII. I merely contend for the position that we should support our friends, especially if we perceive that injustice is being done to them.

            I take everyone at their word. If someone were to say to me “I am going to kill you”, I would act accordingly. Chinese leadership has made their position on the South China Sea abundantly clear. You will note that position is being repeated here. This is why I believe that mine clearance capability is of the utmost importance to the US Navy. I can see China mining the entire SCS, except for prescribed routes which it requires ship traffic to follow.

            Of course, the most effective response to such actions might just be a very serious “But American” campaign, or a 100% tariff on imported Chinese goods, which would have pretty much the same effect, and might address the trade deficit. That wouldn’t make me scream and holler.

          • Jeff Fournier

            That is not correct the Philippines have a great Land Base in Which USA can have Military assets stationed in the Area to prevent a Communist regime from taking over an important waterway.

      • la

        What do you mean Philippine is selling soil from Zambales to fill to build the new Chinese miltary base in Manilas front living room..now that takes the cake. I guess Philippine military does not care

      • la

        thats a lot of oil inside Philippine west sea about 1 trillion and the east Philippine sea has even more could be the next Dubai

    • tpharwell

      Well, if they were to leave, I would not stop that. Let’s try be precise.

    • 1 Scarborough shoal was claim by China in 1946 under the treaty of Cairo
      2 Scarborough shoal is not Philippines territory under the treaty of Paris
      3 Philippines EEZ end 12 nm before Scarborough shoal at low tide
      4 UN ICJ and ithlos already distant from that kangargoo courts

      • tachyonzero

        5 all of your arguments are nonsense.

      • Jeff Fournier

        Scarborough shoal has never been administered by China. It also is within PH 200nm EEZ not China’s and it does not Generate any EEZ nor Territorial Waters of its own. Under the Treaty of UNCLOS China cannot own the seas or resources outside of its EEZs and actual Land Territory. China signed this treaty and is now crapping all over it and their neighbors.

        • 1 Philippines EEZ end 12 nm of Scarborough shoal
          2 Philippines territory up to the scope of treaty of Paris only

          3 Under the Treaty of UNCLOS…that’s very funny
          1 unclos is not belongs to UN like ITHLOS don’t U know
          2 what unclos have to do with Scarborough shoal sovereignty …..
          I have to say U r dumb not nuts

          • Jeff Fournier

            There is nowhere online that states Scarborough Shoal is not within PH EEZ. Liar!!!
            Paris Treaty does not give a Sea to China. LOL So saddd
            UNCLOS is what China and most Nations go by and have signed , The Law of the Sea. No One owns a sea or ocean. Try again please.
            Counter you really need to get out more. There is no way in this world the major Countries of the world will allow Communist China to steal an entire sea. The law is binding and USA will enforce it if China keeps being belligerent.
            The recent decision is actually a non biased decision. China should be taking Japan to court and stop this BS of taking a sea and start enforcing the International Laws and Treaties it has signed. Want to play with the big boys then China needs to act like a Super Power that protects smaller countries and has honor. 🙂

          • 1 There is nowhere online that states Scarborough Shoal is not within PH EEZ. Liar!!!……..Stupid Philippines EEZ end 12 nm in front of Scarborough shoal in low tide….and of course Scarborough shoal is China territory
            2 treaty of Paris is about the independence of Philippines got nothing to do with China
            3 Unclos is only back by the UN and is not an org of UN and ICJ and ithlos distant themselves from unclos right away after they make the decision
            Unclos is over and they will never have a case ….disgrace don’t U know
            1 Taiping island is an islands that’s not arguable or else US will lost all their EEZ in Pacific except near guam and Hawaii and all the eez near Alaska

    • Philippines need to bring the case to UN ICJ if have the jurisdiction…[email protected]

      • Lapu Lapu

        Good idea, tell you ccp masters to initiate it. Please Please please.

  • The Dead Rabbits

    The west should have used the UNCLOS ruling as a trigger to take back Scarborough Shoal. Now, China will never relinquish what they have stolen from under Obama’s nose.

    • John Locke

      China laid claim to the shoal long before Obama was born.

      • The Dead Rabbits

        Yes, Chiang Kai-Shek tried that ridiculous 11 dash liine trick in 1948 and everyone laughed.

        • Cairo Declaration, the Potsdam Declaration, and in the Yalta Agreement. was sign by both US UK Russian China nd loser Japan in 1946
          upgrade yr knowledge before debating with others

          • The Dead Rabbits

            Take an English lesson. No South China Seas at Yalta, Potsdam.

          • no south china sea in Cairo Declaration, the Potsdam Declaration, and in the Yalta Agreement …have nothing to do with the English lesson….uneducated dumb …. South China Sea R major…..

          • The Dead Rabbits

            Go back to People’s Daily and CCTV, LOL!!!

          • catch any fish in Scarborough shoal ????….HAHAHA
            love the Shushi

          • The Dead Rabbits

            None left after the Chinese swarm of locusts denuded the area.

          • plenty fish in Scarborough shoal…..don’t U know?
            seeing is believing……..HAHAHA..
            by the way Canada tag Philippines locust….

      • life form

        be serious.

        • Cairo Declaration, the Potsdam Declaration, and in the Yalta Agreement. was sign by both US UK Russian China nd loser Japan in 1946

          • life form

            Japan signed none of those, nor did China participate or sign at Yalta, which by the way was in 1945.

            Cairo was 1943. Potsdam was 1945, and ROC China did not participate in the conference, but was one of the issuers of the resulting document. Your post is factually false, and I can’t imagine why you would throw away your face to readers that know better.

          • ROC China did not participate in the conference,????
            they R the property of the the people of China not the party …dumbAss

          • life form

            That is correct, ROC China did not participate at the Yalta conference.

          • Japan signed none of those????
            typical psychopath

    • Tony4

      So, you are willing to die for Scarborough Shoal? Or send your daughter to die for it? Or let Washington increase your taxes to pay Filippinos to die for it (actually, we would just borrow more money to pay for that, so your great-grandkids can pay it back)?

      What level of U.S. national interest does Scarborough Shoal represent to you?

      • tpharwell

        The same level as showing that we have friends in the world, who we stand by. Do we die for them ? Not necessarily. Do we help them ? Yes, if that is in our national interest.

      • life form

        China’s going to have to ask herself a similar question. Does she want to try for the Scarborough Shoal though it will harden US and ASEAN opposition? Can she stand against the US, Japan, the PH and all of ASEAN save Cambodia and Laos? Would the PLAN be able to stand against the navies of the US, Japan, Vietnam, and the Aussies?

        Would the winters be cold in North China and Beijing without oil imports that pass through the Malacca Straits? The Vietnamese and the US could close that down very quickly. Do you know how much of China’s energy passes through there? The west doesn’t have to invade, it can squeeze. The US is energy independent, or close enough. China isn’t anywhere near independent. It is massively import dependent. It needs energy, it needs cash. Both can be turned off easily. Would the CCP still rule China after such disruption, or would they be deposed?

        Like the dead rabbits, I’ve already risked my neck for the US and don’t regret it, but I went to a better chosen fight than dead rabbits did. Unlike dead rabbits I am lib. On many things.

        You think the US won’t fight to preserve the semi serviceable post WW2 world order? You think the PLA/PLAN/PLAAF can stand against the US? And Japan? And Vietnam? And the Aussies? And the PH, who may not have much military, but they have a great location….

        Don’t believe your party’s propaganda. Remember:

        Qian Long, assumed superiority to the west in 1793, to the British King George II.

        Lin Zixu thanked Queen Victoria for her submission in the 1839 Letter of Advice to Queen Victoria. I don’t say these wars were just, but i do say both Chinese civilizations were shocked at how easily they were defeated by those they threatened, scorned and patronized.

        China’s come a long way in my life time, I remember when it was shattered and starving. But don’t make the same mistake a third time. China has not built her way into ascendancy, or even independence in the last 50 years. Get yourselves a vote, rule of law, and stabilize your economy, and wait a while longer before you try to take over Asia.

        Don’t make the same mistake a third time. Hasn’t China had enough of civil war for a time? Don’t let the insular arrogance of your leaders lead you into national suicide. Again.

        • tpharwell

          Well said. China has come a long way, has a great future, and does not need this. It is really a distraction. Aye, but maybe there is something in that.

          Perhaps we should inquire who is pushing this agenda.

      • Noel Cuta

        The issue on Scarborough Shoal today is the issue of US survival in South China Sea. South China Sea controls the 1/3 of world’s trade ($ 5 trillion). This can affect the US economy if this route will be closed. US has standing mutual defense treaties with Philippines, Japan, and South Korea in case China will attack their territories.

        The question is this, “Is maintaining the Scarborough Shoal strategic to US interests in South China Sea”? Absolutely, it is strategic. By supporting the Philippines in this Scarborough Shoal (Panacot island), China cannot close the international waters in the said area of South China Sea. The same thing also with Japan and Korea’s marine waters that were also claimed by China that needed to be secured.

        The update right now in Scarborough Shoal is that China had lost to Philippines in UN Arbitration Court in Hague which ruled that the Philippines is the rightful owner of the said Island as confirmed from all evidences presented during the court hearings of the said case.

    • to take back Scarborough Shoal?????than U R dead meat….STUPID
      google why UNICJ and ITHLOS distant themselves from that kangaroo court and see why pople only calling them PCA not unclos anymore

      1 Scarborough shoal was claim by China in 1946 under the treaty of Cairo
      2 Scarborough shoal never Philippines territory under the treaty of Paris
      3 google search yrself….OK

      • The Dead Rabbits

        No, it wasn’t claimed by China under the Treaty of Cairo. Go read the document, genius.

    • Hoooah

      I dare the West / US to take it, Come on, bring it on, talk is cheap!!

      • The Dead Rabbits

        China is paper tiger, PLA/PLAN is corrupt through and through, Scarorough Shoal was a gunnery practice target for the US Navy at Subic Bay for years.

  • tpharwell

    What a nice breath of fresh air. Someone offer a chair to this gentleman.

    Is it time ? Answer: past time. About three years so.

    There is no news here. All of the developments motivating this advice have been underway for a long time, and could be seen coming by anyone who was watching. We are slow to respond to them. Therefore, I would not suggest, as the Admiral does, that we simply mull it over. When you have a high card, you play it. You don’t sit back and admire it.

    There has been no stronger incentive for Chinese territorial claims in and to the South China Sea and what islands it contains, than the official US position of neutrality with respect thereto. It is what is called, a “green light”. And only official positions count. And only if proven by action.

    • KazuakiShimazaki

      I’ll go even further and say it is thirty years too late. I’ve never understood the whole US pretense of neutrality on sovereignty, unless its secret aim is to ensure conflicts are never resolved.

      The idea that sovereignty isn’t that important and countries should concentrate on “joint development” or similar is stupid even in a theoretical sense because the very terms of said joint development will revolve heavily around on who owns the set of disputed territory.

      And it is actually an endorsement of might makes right, because if every third party is “neutral”, then the game will eventually be won by the strongest interested power.

      If the US had come down on one side or another on all the disputes and applied its soft power, its quite likely most won’t have flared up. Isn’t the post WWII order supposed to be based on “soft power” rather than the hard power of economic or military coercion? If so, why isn’t the US using their substantial stock in that area?

      • tpharwell

        Dunno. Maybe we are waiting to sell shares for the bucket brigade. It is a State Department thing. You see, we are friends with everybody. And it is doubly evident that everybody is friends with us.

  • FedUpWithWelfareStates

    More Saber Rattling by the CIM Complex, still trying to make their case for getting the U.S. involved in yet, another unwinnable war.

    What is the deal, McDevitt? Your retirement pension NOT covering the cost of your NEW beach house, so you are shilling for the CIM Complex?

    We have absolutely ZERO reason to be getting involved in the SCS debacle, especially in the defense of the Philippines, who refused to extend the lease on Subic Bay, not for sovereignty issues, but due to GREED & nothing else…

    That one selfish act on the part of the Philippines set the stage for everything that is happening today in the SCS.

    Filipinos HATE us…FACT!

    Keep in mind that if these Clowns get us involved in a shooting war with China, over an area of ocean where the U.S. has NO claim to whatsoever, it will lead to WWIII, with not just China as our adversary, but Russia, N. Korea, etc. coming against us…

    The America people will NOT support another Endless War, just so OUR inept & archaic Military Empires & the Defense Industry, can continue to prop their selves up with even bigger budgets, even more expensive planes/ships/toys, but with NO return on Investment, as in actually winning a war since WWII…

    • life form

      Well, then don’t worry about US.

      PS the Filipinos seem to like the US people a lot more than the CCP Chinese. The US is allowed shared basing rights in eight places now. China? No.
      The PH allows US citizens entry without a visa. Chinese..no.

      You’re a fantasist.

      • Jay

        No, Fed Up is an imbecile who fancies himself a “strategist”..

        • life form

          I think he’s really a wumao troll. Try him on China. CCP party line all the way. Never a criticism of the CCP.

    • Noel Cuta

      FedUpWithWelfareStates,

      Most Filipinos favoured the US bases in Subic Bay. But the problem was that our leaders at that time had been duped by China. These said leaders we had did not know what they were doing. Removing the US bases in Subic Bay was the motivating factor that China was aggressive in annexing her neighbor’s territories like the Philippines.

      Anyway the issue of presence of American Navy or military was reinstated later not in the form of US Bases but in the form of military exercises which seemed to me the same as before. Our US military personnel are based now in Zamboanga. It looks like a military base well enough to secure the international trade route in South China Sea.

      Filipinos do not hate the Americans. Only those corrupt politicians who want to hide their evil ways want US out. And also those communists in the Philippines want US out too. On the other Filipinos love Americans. US and the Philippines have stronger ties ever. There is no other Asian in Asia who are closer to USA. WE cannot deny that.

      The issue on Scarborough Shoal today is the issue of US survival in South China Sea. South China Sea controls the 1/3 of world’s trade ($ 5 trillion). This can affect the US economy if this route will be closed. US has standing mutual defense treaties with Philippines, Japan, and South Korea in case China will attack their territories.

      The question is this, “Is maintaining the Scarborough Shoal strategic to US interests in South China Sea”? Absolutely, it is strategic. By supporting the Philippines in this Scarborough Shoal (Panacot island), China cannot close the international waters in the said area of South China Sea. The same thing also with Japan and Korea’s marine waters that were also claimed by China that needed to be secured.

      The update right now in Scarborough Shoal is that China had lost to Philippines in UN Arbitration Court in Hague which ruled that the Philippines is the rightful owner of the said Island as confirmed from all evidences presented during the court hearings of the said case.

  • Bruce Boyce

    The Chinese respond to actions; not dialogue and they can be very patient. This area contains some of the most important shipping lanes on the planet and no one country should control it. We need to act promptly as they won’t slow down on their side just by talking to them.

  • John B. Morgen

    If the Chinese have not established any structures on the Scarborough Shoal, then maybe the United States Navy, and along with Philippine troops should take the Scarborough Shoal by military force.

    • El_Sid

      Or dynamite the top 100m of it “for safety of navigation”.

      • tpharwell

        Caballero, is it a “no wake” zone ?

      • John B. Morgen

        We are going to need something a lot stronger than just using dynamite; I’m not referring to nuclear weapons, let’s keep it clean for the fishermen and safe/free navigation.

    • Ford GT basket of deplorables

      Ok I agree and make it a US/ Filipino military outpost

      • John B. Morgen

        We better take it now, or hold our peace while we can.

        • Ford GT basket of deplorables

          The military would as both of our top Admirals have offered and issue a warning that any president with a brain would understand.

          Unfortunately the admirals would be better off talking to a wall!
          As Obama has no brains or similar grey matter between the ears tk think with. Hence Obama’s inability to tell our Admirals to proceed and prosecute the situation at hand.
          But I bet you he can’t even do the minimum. We’ll be waiting on the next president before something positive is done. It’s never too late but it will become more difficult to extricate China off Philippine property

          • John B. Morgen

            It would not be difficult or impossible to remove the Chinese off the said land mass, but it would be bloody. It really depends on the Chinese if they want to make it worst.

          • Lapu Lapu

            True, I wonder how the ccp will face those families with one child who died because of their idiotic land/sea grab.

          • John B. Morgen

            The Chinese government will blame the families’ losses to the Western Imperialists, as they always do during such conflicts..

          • Lapu Lapu

            Of course. Imagine all those lineages erased because of the idiotic ccp. I mean the next Einstein could be born out of those lost bloodlines. But the best way to analyse the ccp’s thinking is with a big helping of GREED, don’t you think?

          • John B. Morgen

            Those are the chances and the risks that any government takes, and if China wants to take that risk of losing lives then so be it. Life goes on, or time goes on. As I have said before many times, empires come and go. The United States is [NOT] special, nor is China or any other nation-state is special.

          • Lapu Lapu

            I concur.

      • Hoooah

        I Dare the US to make it, talk is cheap!

        • Stinky Butt

          Goooak from Chinatown,

          PLEASE CHOOSE YOUR MENU THEN EAT:
          – SAUTEED RAT MEAT;
          – FRIED RAT MEAT;
          – ABORTED RAT FETUS ALA CARTE;
          – BARBEQUED LIVE RODENT;
          – RAT MEAT ENTREE;
          – RAW RAT MEAT;
          – USED CONDOMS SPRINKLED WITH CHOPPED RAT MEAT;
          – RAT MEAT WITH WHITE WINE;
          – SAUTÉED RAT MEAT PICCATA
          – RAT MEAT WITH NOODLES;
          – RAT MEAT STEAK, MEDIUM WELL

        • XiJinxPig

          the only thing you dare is licking my butt clean troll!

    • 1 Scarborough shoal was claim by China in 1946 under the treaty of Cairo
      2 Scarborough shoal never Philippines territory under the treaty of Paris
      3 google search yrself….OK

      • John B. Morgen

        The International Court has ruled in favor for the Philippines, and China [MUST] respect that ruling or else…..

        • Noel Cuta

          I can’t agree with you more.

        • not Scarborough shoal and besides that UNICJ and ITHLOS already distance themselves from that kangaroo court

          • John B. Morgen

            The court made its decision, so live with it, and take your Sino-puppets with you comrade.

          • court ??? U mean the kangaroo court ….HAHAHA
            $30 millions can buy U a sweet dream for 2 weeks only

          • John B. Morgen

            May a tsunami wash away your pin-head island bases—-comrade…….

          • typhoon belt ring of fire =gate of he!!
            that’s what Philippines circumstance not Spratly Islands besides that tsunami will not do any damage to the concrete structure…..dumb2ss

          • John B. Morgen

            You’d know nothing about water-erosion, and what it can do to concrete structures—comrade!

          • water-erosion against concrete structure…stupid
            a tetrapod is a tetrahedral concrete structure used as armour unit on breakwaters don’t U know…I have double degree in UNSW…how about U…[email protected]
            1 U don’t know me
            2 yr knowledge sucks
            3 yr vocabulary actually shows that U R banana republic uneducated pygmy

          • Lapu Lapu

            Or else.

    • Noel Cuta

      China should remove all her structures in Scarborough Shoal. China violated the territorial integrity of the Philippines by annexing Scarborough Shoal as her territory.

      • John B. Morgen

        Agreed! However, the Philippines must establish control of the Scarborough Shoal by placing some structures, along with some troops.

  • Mmm

    Oh my god!American talk about the history with China, Iraqis and Afghans will consider American is crazy and stupid

  • Ford GT basket of deplorables

    Let the US Corp of Army Engineers start dredging on Scarborough Shoals.
    The Chinese are defiant after the arbitration ruling. We need to stop their defiance and they need to learn obedience as did India vs Bangladesh. They lost but won when they allowed the unclos based ruling to be binding.

    The international courts South China Sea case is binding to China.
    They may not like it, but they will accept it or else!

    • the unclos based ruling to be binding? oppose by the UN ICJ and ITHLOS straight away
      Scarborough Shoals is China territory claim under the treaty of Cairo in 1946 and honestly what it got to do with the US
      Philippines territory only up to the scope of treaty of Paris don’t U know ?

      • Ford GT basket of deplorables

        Your a complete fool to even make such a remark it’s sitting off the Philippines main Island of Luzon!
        Scarborough Shoals sits some 700+ miles from mainland China it most certainly is not only Philippines property but also its well within their Exclusive Economic Zone as well.

        So don’t trouble yourself again with such foolish and inept commentary you’ll be ignored next time, but this issue isn’t going away until we fix the mistakes of Obama’s administration!

        • Your a complete fool to even make such a remark Scarborough Shoals sitting off the Philippines main Island of Luzon!
          look at what’s treaty of Paris Philippines if I were U before arguing [email protected]
          Philippines claim it is within their EEZ but sorry Scarborough Shoals is a rock so Philippines EEZ end 12 nm before the shoal at low tide

          look at Christmas island and see how close to Indonesia

          • Lapu Lapu

            Just wait till it gets fixed. But I guess you won’t be posting by then.

      • Noel Cuta

        You do not know what you are talking here counter attack

        • upgrade yr knowledge before argue with the facts

          • Lapu Lapu

            You are a sad sad excuse for a person. I pity you.

    • Hoooah

      The US Is just HOT AIR, talk is Cheap!

      • Vino Rocha

        Goooak,
        US Navy said:
        “We’re just waiting for the Chinese to make the first mistake so we can annihilate them. Then they could all meet Bruce Lee & Chairman Mao and take selfies with them.”

        May 10, 2016 – An American warship sailed on Tuesday within miles of an artificial island built by China in the South China Sea, an operation intended to show that the United States opposes China’s efforts to restrict navigation in the strategic waterway, the Pentagon said.

        The warship, the William P. Lawrence, a guided missile destroyer, ventured into the vicinity of Fiery Cross Reef, a 700-acre artificial island China constructed in the last 18 months on top of two small rocks.

        • Hoooah

          Yeah sailed with INNOCENT PASSAGE ,just HOT AIR, in order to fool the the stupid Failipinas, nothing more.

          • XiJinxPig

            So that’s why I felt your breath when you were licking my azz clean!

      • XiJinxPig

        Hot air that will make your chinkna go to the stone age!

    • don’t lost yr food bill…..remember

  • 1 Scarborough shoal was claim by China in 1946 under the treaty of Cairo
    2 Scarborough shoal is not Philippines territory under the treaty of Paris
    3 Philippines EEZ end 12 nm before Scarborough shoal at low tide
    4 UN ICJ and ithlos already distant from that kangargoo courts
    5 Wha’s it got to do with the US …..

  • Iraq have no aerial defense at all but invade Scarborough shoal….I don’t think any US warship will go back home

    • Lapu Lapu

      Bwaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha, good one.

  • tachyonzero

    5 all of your arguments are nonsense…

  • Hugh

    The Chinese have raised many historical etc points as to why their claims are valid. Other countries have made their claims. The International Court should have taken all this into account, and they have ruled the way they did – presumably as independent international 3rd party legal experts.

  • dannocaz

    If any construction, dredging, or improvement is intended by either side, they’ll have to contend with tons of un-exploded ordinance on the south end of the shoal. I myself saw my wingman drop 2 cans of CBU-52 too low (switch error) where the bomblets spread out of the canister and didn’t arm in 1984 when it was a US live bombing range. The fishermen around the reef know where most of the ordinance is located.

  • old guy

    I have a cave in Death Valley you con hide in, away from the real world

    • U been hiding in yr cave for far too long HAHAHA
      the real world is
      1 UNICJ and ITHLOS do not agree with that kangaroo court
      2 Philippines is nobody
      3 US is not support by the EU and the Asean…not talk about the middle east
      Africa and South America countries…

  • tachyonzero

    Scarborough is never part of China neither the Ancient prehistoric China, thats real common sense.

    • Scarborough is always China territory and reclaim after ww2 under the treaty of cairo in 1946…..uneducated dumbass

      • tachyonzero

        Its is never been par t of China, you just have to accept the fact before you start blabbing nonsense insults.

        • wake up $30 millions can buy U sweet dream for 2 weeks only

  • XiJinxPig

    Please note how my minion counter attack (another id used by Pang Yiu ki) tries to overwhelm with its far-out chinklish plus the cheering of Hooah, my azz tongue-lick cleaner who are polluting this forum! They are in a contest to see who will have the honor of cleaning the butt of Chairman Mao’s’ cadaver!

  • Dustin

    China needs to be stopped now. In my view they declared war on the American people and government with all of their state sponsored cyber theft of American companies trade secrets,government,military secrets and civilian information.China gets too much credit for their ingenuity when really it was all stolen to begin with.Time to send them back to ancient china

  • la

    Maybe the us should not take a position since Scarlborough shoal Chinese military construction has started and the Philippine is providing material to do so from Zambales so I guess its ok for the Philippines..for their rights to taken away for the price of soil..

  • Jeff Fournier

    A Couple frogmen to stay and go to the area every week and start blowing holes in any Chinese ship in the area. China will only understand force in reply to its own force.