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Document: Naval Sea Systems Command SNA 2018 U.S. Navy Littoral Combat Ship Briefings

The following are the Naval Sea Systems Command briefings on the Littoral Combat Ship programs LCS Surface Warfare, Anti-Submarine Warfare and Mine Countermeasure mission from last week’s Surface Navy Association 2018 symposium.

  • ElmCityAle

    The graphic link to this story is a mock-up by Kongsberg showing launchers for their Naval Strike Missile on both LCS variants, but the content of this article does not mention the longer range missile program(s). Yes, I know about the testing of NSM and Harpoon and fielding of the latter on LCS 4, just pointing out the slides don’t mention the larger missiles, just Hellfire.

    • ShermansWar

      The NSM is a 900 lb missile. The LRASM is a 2500 lb missile.

      I dont think they are looking to put a missile as big as the LRASM onboard.

      That, and the LRASM has been pulled from the competition for the next frigate/LCS missile program, as has Harpoon. NSM wins by default.

      • Duane

        LRASM IS going aboard LCS. The Navy and LM designed and built a modified Mk 141 angled cannister deck launcher last year and tested it successfully at White Sands last August. The next step is to mount the modified launcher on an LCS, expected this spring, to launch LRASM directly from the LCS.

        The graphic shown in this post illustrate the Mk 141 canister launcher, as presently used to launch both Harpoons and NSM (the Harpoon being much heavier than NSM at 1,300 pounds), LRASM is much heavier, but not much longer … it has a bigger missile body that is more or less triangular in shape, as part of its stealth design … so the launcher tubes have to accommodate that shape as well as the heavier wate.

        • N

          It should be noted that according to Rear Adm. Boxall only the last 5-6 out of 31-32 planned LCS will have the SWAP built in for OTH missile launchers. So unless the navy plans to fund the back-fitting on previously built hulls and make some trade offs the majority of the class may never carry OTH missiles.

          That said, we packed two quad packs of harpoons and a 76mm gun on the 240ish ton Pegasus class hulls so finding the space isn’t the engineering challenge some of the LCS bashers make it out to be.

          • Duane

            What he said is that only the last half dozen will certainly have the OTH launchers. But given the Navy’s strong emphasis on distributed lethality, I think it is likely that most if not all LCS, other than the two training ships and the two MM development ships will eventually be equipped with the OTH launchers. The space is there, it’s just a matter of cost and weight. Cost depends upon what Congress authorizes, and for those vessels where weight is more of an issue (the MCM modules, with its additional CUSVs), they can simply limit the launchers to the NSM, which weighs about 1/3 what LRASM weighs. For the SuW and ASW versions, they’ll likely carry LRASM too, probably a mix of LRASM and NSM. The Navy also has the option of going with two 2-cell launchers (which is what the Coronado has installed), instead of 2 4-cell launchers as illustrated in the graphics, which gets the weight and cost lower still. Carrying 4 medium range NSMs is still a much bigger lethal punch than carrying none.

            Keep in mind that even our far larger DDGs (but only the Flight 1s), only carry 8 cells of OTH in deck launchers. The Flight IIs don’t carry any deck launchers. That is likely to change, however, as we can expect that the Flight IIs and Flight IIIs will also start getting retrofitted with the modified deck launchers. By doing that, then the VLS cells on those ships can remain dedicated to air and missile defense and land attack missiles, their primary roles in the fleet.

          • N

            Yes, I would have to agree with you. I see the Navy wanting to outfit as many ships as they can afford with OTH missiles given the new distributed lethality concept. Not sure if the money will be available but we shall see.
            It seems most people have forgotten that until recently surface ships in a CSG didn’t have surface warfare as a primary point of emphasis or responsibility (still don’t really). The fast jets on the flat top are more than capable of sinking enemy surface combatants at range.

          • Duane

            Yup .. the philosophy is changing with distributed lethality where we are going to see more and more disaggregated DDGs not working with CSGs … so the ability to go after surface targets independently is now important.

            Today none of the Flight IIs or IIA Restarts have OTH deck mounted missile launchers, or carry even the old Harpoon Block 1s. They have a sort of half-assed ASM in that the Navy is able to repurpose the SM-6 for anti-ship use. But that is a poor substitute for ASCMs, as the SM-6 is very big, heavy (3,300 pounds), and expensive (around $4M a pop) compared to LRASM (2,500 pounds) or NSM (900 pounds), and its warhead is only 140 pounds (NSM is twice that, and LRASM is 7 times that). LRASM even has a longer range, and both LRASM and NSM cost $1M or less per pop.

            So it’s a lot more efficient to put the angled deck launchers on the Flight IIs and IIAs and IIIs and fill them with LRASM and NSM. Leave the VLS for air and missile defense and land attack missiles.

  • Al L.

    Well this is big and welcome news “Torpedo Defense Module being installed on all LCS ships”. Hope it comes true.

    • It’s just a towed decoy, not the hard kill system we’re putting on the carriers.

      • Al L.

        Obviously, just like every other ship with a decoy.
        LCS had no torpedo defense system planned originally, and only the ASW equipped ships were announced to get the LWT, until now.

  • OS1 retired

    The idea that the noisest ship in the fleet could be a sub hunter is a massive joke. Every ASW sailor out there, worth his salt, knows the first and foremost thing in ASW is to not GIVE AWAY your position to the enemy subs. The LCS was not designed to be a sub hunter in any way shape or form, those massive water jets create sound and massive wake noise that can be heard by enemy subs a hundred miles away but also easily seen from space. It’s engineering plant is one large noise making machine. Hunting subs with the LCS is akin to walking into a dark room full of bad guys with guns and shining the flashlight on yourself.

    • John Locke

      Is your assertion that LCS noise levels make it a poor sub hunter backed up by actual testing or is it just an opinion?

      • Duane

        Obviously just an opinion. LCS are actually quiet ships, the pump jets are not “noisy” in terms of sound transmitted underwater. Shrouded pump impellers are naturally quieter than open propellers – no tip vortices and no tip cavitation (there is internal cavitation within the LCS waterjet housing, to increase efficiency of the propulsor, but it is not an external cavitation. A cavitating prop is like the noisiest thing underwater as far as subs are concerned. A cavitating prop literally generates hundreds of vapor bubble implosions per minute – a sound that is loud as heck to underwater sensors. All surface warships with props cavitate like heck whenever they accelerate rapidly or travel at high speeds. Subs can literally hear them from many miles away.

        • USN retired

          I guess that’s why all of the ultimate sub hunters, the USNS T-AGOS ships have massive and noisy water jet propulsion and were designed without any regard to plant design, and hull to water noise propagation. I think someone needs to go back to school and relearn the basics of ASW

      • NavySubNuke

        If PEO-LCS can ever gets it’s sh*t together enough to produce a working ASW module we might find out.
        Currently they are years behind schedule and tens of millions over budget after they finished detailed design on the first attempt and realized it was so bloated and grossly overweight it would sink the poor LCS it was mated to and they had to restart from scratch.
        No worries though – I’m sure they’ll get there eventually…..

    • Duane

      Every surface ASW sailor should know that ALL surface ships are noisy as heck to any submarine with a decent passive sonar system – i.e., ALL US subs, and probably ALL near peer nation subs. Surface ships are never stealthy to subs … you have it exactly backwards.

      LCS were and are and remain sub hunters and sub killers, with a VDS sonar that is vastly superior to any hull mounted or non-VDS towed array sonar. Only a surface ship with a VDS can hear subs below thermoclines. That has always been one the reasons that subs make far superior ASW platforms than any skimmer.

      • John Locke

        Hence why he retired as an OS1

        • Old Salt

          Apparently that retired OS1 knows a thing or two more than you do Mess specialist seaman recruit

      • bobblehead

        Well heck, let’s just retire the whole fleet and also our own subs, since the LCS is sooooooooo superior to everything out there. Wow? who is this guy?

      • El Kabong

        “LCS were and are and remain sub hunters and sub killers…”?

        Ok Duaney, with WHAT kit?

    • LazyFlyBall

      Good thing an LCS can embark two MQ-8Cs that have a range of over a hundred miles and can stay aloft for hours and hours hunting for subs far away from the ship then. Right?
      Seriously, no other ship is equipped to hunt for subs in multiple locations while the crew is 80 miles away making sandwiches, swabbing the deck.
      When they get a dipping sonar worked out for the MQ-8C, it leapfrogs a lot of other ships. Hiding from robots that don’t sleep is hard.

      • Tin-can sailor

        Wow, that’s amazing, only $588+ million to carry two drones, that’s very very very impressive return on taxpayer dollars. That ability makes the entire fleet obsolete, does it not? Dipping sonar, oh man, that’s really futuristic too, I’ve never even thought that was possible.

      • NavySubNuke

        Certainly – a little ship like a DDG or CG or even a CVN or LPD could never handle as many MQ-8cs as the mighty little crappy ships do!!

  • BlueSky47

    The LCS is the world’s greatest mine hunter-that’s why it’s so fast, those pesky little mines can really move. Oh wait, the LCS is the defender of the fleet, defend the battle group with it’s awesome…ah….awesome…..ah…..57mm gun. Oh wait, the LCS is the world’s best sub hunter and killer with it’s towed array, that it needs to stop and deploy, etc, and with it’s noisy water jets propulsion, the subs will come to it, then it can destroy the subs with it’s awesome ASW weapons, it’s torpedoes, it’s ASROC, it’s single helo that can only land in sea state 2 and lower, ah, er wait. The LCS is the world’s greatest Persian gulf specific rubber dingy fast boat killer with it’s Hellfire missile that only cost $150,000 per against the cost of a rubber dingy fast boat with rpg and machine guns of $10,000, it’s a great deal for the tax payer, and it’s awesome 57mm gun that can’t shoot strait when the ship is at speed and jams all the time, er wait. The LCS is the world’s greatest money maker for Lockmart, glad we got that figured out.

    • kye154

      And let’s not forget, because of the LCS’s “modular design”, the Capt of the LCS must ask permission from the enemy’s Capt. to disengage in combat, so the LCS can run back to port and switch out modules to come back and resume the fight.

      • BlueSky47

        We’ll just start calling it the MCS or Millennial Combat Ship, where when the going get’s rough it can simply run off to it’s ‘safe’ place in the ‘littorals’ (and sip on a latte)

      • Ed L

        6 days later

  • kye154

    The LCS is nothing more than a glorified over-sized speed boat with jet engines in it, and has a pea-shooter of a gun, to make one think it is a combat ship. World War II PT boats, or the old 1969 Knox class frigate,s would probably give it some pretty tough competition. Of course, it has the speed to run away from the old Frigates, if they are not firing their 537 mph harpoon missiles, or firing their 2650 fps 5 inch 54 cal. gun at the 44 kt (51 mph,) LCS. Otherwise, there is hardly any speed advantage to it for protection.

    • ElmCityAle

      What naval combat over the past several decades has been decided by guns?

      • GMG1

        Go back to your Persian gulf history, Desert Shield and Desert Storm, the US Navy made a LOT of use of their 5 in guns, the Spruance destroyers were firing both mounts at the same time! If the LCS were there firing their puny little 57mm, they’d still be there going “pew, pew, pew, pew” without any effect. LOL

        • ElmCityAle

          Zero effective use of those 5-inch guns against the small boats. Otherwise, they peppered various platforms, which then required further demolitions charges to destroy them. So, the answer is: no naval combat in several decades has required guns. I’m not saying they have no potential use, but missile systems are likely far more important at this point in the evolution of technology.

    • OleSquidd

      You do mean the 1052 class? My first afloat command was DE-1069 USS Bagley, the 18th Knox class Destroyer Escort or later, Frigate.

  • Duane

    Good summary, much more detailed than the usual blather on media reports and comment strings that assume that mission packages are all or nothing, rather than each one being a collection of individual capabilities to which new capabilities are added from time to time (like the 24-cell Hellfire vertical launcher that was first tested about a year ago).

    Additionally, the Navy is also working on at least three more new mission modules beyond the baseline ASW, SuW, and MCM modules. They’re in the early stages of developing a new Special Operations Forces support MM, an electronic warfare MM, and a fleet communications MM. With the modular design of the LCS there is no conceptual limit to what can be packaged and delivered and deployed as a mission module as long as it can fit within the volume and weight limits.

    • publius_maximus_III

      L.C.S. Duane: The two Power Point presentations gave me a new-found respect for both LCS versions, but I still think a new frigate design needs to be in-work pronto. I’m now, however, cautiously optimistic the existing LCS pipeline will cover most USN littoral needs in the interim. I wasn’t before.

      • Duane

        The Navy does seem to be in a hurry to get going with the FFG(X). The only possible competitors that can meet both the Navy’s cost and schedule requirements are the two existing Frigate variant designs of the Freedom class and Independence class LCS. LM-Fincanteri and Austal-GD have been on top of this since at least 2014, and LM has already sold its stretched Freedom class frigate to the Saudis (lengthened from 378 ft to 440 feet, added the VLS, increased the range, put the 8-cell OTH angled canister deck launchers, etc.). Read the specs on the Saudi frigate and it sounds almost verbatim what is in the USN FFG(X) RFP requirements, as described last week at the annual SNA meeting. Only LM and Austal can possibly get the first ship delivered by 2025 with an average delivered ship price of under $800M on a block buy,

        • publius_maximus_III

          Hopefully the new frigates will be dual sourced, too… except this time with the SAME design from both.

        • publius_maximus_III

          And no helicopters, just drones.

          • Duane

            The FFG(X) is supposed to deploy both MH60R and MQ-8C UAVs. They’re designed to work together in both ASW and in SuW.

  • D. Jones

    The program is an embarrassment.

  • kye154

    The LCSs have never been deployed to the South China Sea. Instead, there was a computer war simulation that was done on the LCS back in October of 2013. It showed the LCS loosing badly to the Chinese in that simulation. It caused congress to have a hearing on the LCS in early 2014, on the deficiencies of the LCS. The U.S. Navy had planned to send 2 LCS to Singapore for this year, (2018), but the breakdowns of the LCS’s has kept the navy from achieving that goal. If you want information about the LCS simulation, go to the “Medium com” website: or type in: “How I lost the battle of the South China Sea”. But, stop with the “frontline business”. It never happened.

  • BlueSky47

    You easily forget your own words Admiral. No so long ago you were ‘very proud’ that an LCS was able to ‘run away,’ from a oncoming Chinese warship, to the littorals. So in your mind that was a ‘highly successful’ deployment. You’re a joke if you think a warship’s sole purpose is to run-away “when danger rears it’s ugly head…”

  • kye154

    Since I navigated through all of that area back in the 1960’s and 1970’s, I know precisely where Singapore is located relative to the South China sea. Singapore is not in the disputed area of the South China Sea, nor is the waterway Kepulauan Biau which borders to the north of Singapore. Get a map sometime yourself and study it. The USS Freedom was the first ship of its class to go to Singapore, amidst breakdowns along the way, like, with its ship service diesel generators, which resulted in a power outage during a transit to Guam, Then it experienced a corroding, or failing, of a cable affecting the steerable jets. When it got to Singapore, it was in no fighting condition. Then it had problems with its coolant system. As many problems as the USS Freedom had on the way to Singapore, it would have been foolish for the navy to task it to go into the South China sea, and risk another breakdown, only for the Chinese navy come to the rescue and capture it, then send it back in crates, like they did to our EP-3E spy plane in 2001.

    • Duane

      The LCS does not just pop out of the harbor and pop back in. It conducts long range patrols throughout the SCS and into the Malacca Straits, including many joint exercises with regional navies in the SCS area. They’ve already experienced being shadowed by pairs of Chinese frigates who patrol throughout the SCS as they define it by their so-called “nine dash line” which borders or invades the territorial waters of Mayaysia, Brunei, the Philippines, and Vietnam – these are local waters for Singapore based warships.

      • OS1 retired

        Being “shadowed” oooooh. It’s a good thing the LCS had it’s “Scary Face Module” to scare back at those big bad Chinese WARships.

      • Real sailor

        What were they patroling for, they can’t do anything. What in heaven’s name will they do if they see a Chinese warhip coming over the horizon? Turn around and run?

  • BlueSky47

    So your engraining in the psyche of every sailor on an LCS, that instead of sailing into harm’s way with a fast ship, the US Navy sails ‘away from harm’ with a fast ship. I’m sure the Chinese warship was taken aback (with lots of belly laughs at the poor little LCS that got scared and ran away) “Oh let’s go ‘hide’ in the littorals, those big nasty Chinese anti-ship missile will not ‘see’ us there-we’ll be safe. Admiral Duenee yells to the LCS crew “Three cheers for the snowflake Navy, hip hip horray, a ration of lattes for everyone, raise the main, hoist the sail, run up the signal flag “time for lattes” after all boys, it worked in 1812, so it should work in 2017″

    • kye154

      You make a good point, Bluesky47. Problem is, Adm Duenee made up the scenerio. It never actually happened. And, the Chinese frigates are all designed to navigate through most all South China Sea, since many places in that sea are shallow, from the prehistoric glacial melt water submergence of Sundaland 6,000 to 12,000 years ago. Even though the LCS may be relatively faster than the Chinese ships by a few knots, it still can’t outrun a Chinese missile or the projectiles of their 76mm guns. So, it really has no speed advantage at all to run and hide.

  • Tony4

    Of course, cruise missiles and gunfire can’t enter that shallow water, so we’re good…

  • Old Salt

    Your Littoral ‘safe’ place isn’t going to protect you and your ‘precious’ when the missiles and shells start coming your way.

    • Duane

      LCS is quite capable of defending itself from cruise missiles and fending off bad guys.

      • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

        But somehow those big orange targets elude you…and those test drone missiles elude you….and…..

        • Duane

          LCS have a combination of defenses against ASCMs, including the world’s most advanced supersonic own ship’s anti-missile system, SeaRAM – the exact same system deployed on Ford CVNs, Arleigh Burke Flight IIIs, and amphibs – as well as EW systems to deflect incoming missiles and also fire decoys. Same systems used on our other surface warships. Equally capable. The only difference between an LCS and an AB is that it does not provide area air defenses for other, escorted ships. That is not its role, that was never its role.

          • NavySubNuke

            Liar liar pants on fire – ABs have far more capability at their disposal to not only engage incoming cruise missiles but to actually engage the platforms that would otherwise launch them.
            How stupid do you think people are Bathtub admiral Duane? Do you really think people are going to forget that SM-2, SM-6, and ESSMs exist and that AB, unlike LCS, can actually carry them and use them to defend themselves at cruise missiles more than 5 miles away?

          • Duane-aka Sir Lockmart

            Obviously, it’s far far far most advanced than Aegis, NIFC-CA, CEC, BMD, and the whole family of SM missiles and saying “the only difference between and LCS and AB is…” D a n g admiral, that statement is even a stretch for your level of navy I Q. Perhaps we should just retire all Aegis ships and have the LCS protect both the carriers and the homeland. After all, who need a proven technolgy, we go all in with the LCS, I’m sure everything will work out fine

          • El Kabong

            LMAO!

            Clearly, you have no clue what a few Mach 3.0 AShM missile do, even after some have been hit and all those pieces are flying around at Mach 3.0…

          • NavySubNuke

            Come on now — Bathturd Admiral Duane himself told me that “the so-called “supersonics” only go SS in the terminal phase, they spend 95% of their time at subsonic speed. And stupidly, they pop up high and go SS in order to, well, mosly in order to claim they go supersonic, but it only turns them into a big fat juicy target for ESSM or SeaRam”
            Clearly he knows more about Ramjet engine powered ASCMs than anyone else on the planet!!!

          • El Kabong

            Oh, well then, if Adm. Duaney say it, it MUST be fact. 😉

      • El Kabong

        LMAO!

        With WHAT?

  • SamIam

    Fourteen years later we’re still under development! Yep LCS development mean you start with an empty hull and take 20 years to put real capabilities on it. If this was a private enterprise, the LCS ‘project’ would’ve been sunk on year two.

    • Spookie

      At the rate the lame crappy ship is ‘progressing’ perhaps it’ll be able to knock out a few large orange target balls in the next ten years before it’s put out to pasture, but I’m not hoping my breath.

  • D. Jones

    They are not there by choice. You go where you are told.

    The LCS is like a floating Pontiac Aztek. It’s a hideous design by committee albatross that doesn’t work. Unfortunately, it is not the only project failing to live up to its promises. Those who sold the country these bills of goods have retired or moved on.

    Countless worthy programs are starved to feed these “make busy work” re-election specials, that always have jobs in key congressional districts and are named after cities that will get irate if their namesake boat anchor is cancelled.

  • Retire CO

    Apparently do you not know how the Navy works. Sailors and officers are ‘assigned’ to ships. They do not pick and choose their assignments, and a bet you a nice bottle a single malt that not a single sailor nor officer would want to be on an LCS during wartime. Here’s another clue for you. No one here is dispariging any current sailor or officer serving on those ships, we only want our sailor and officers to have fighting chance to get home if they are sent to war. On a LCS they have no chance, and everyone here with any sense of realism and logic fully understands as the CNO famously said “they were never meant to go into harm’s way.”

  • What the f..k

    It’s a good thing the “Big middle finger” module was working that day to scare the PLAN navy off (apparently that’s the only module that really works).

  • Duane-aka Sir Lockmart

    On some LCS ship in the future. “Captain, we have enemy missiles inbound” Caption Duenee replies “hard left rudder, all ahead ludicris speed,” “we’ll hid in the shallows, that’ll save us for sure.”

  • Bob467

    Apprently, saying anything that’s not already pre-approved LCS speak is impugning the entire Navy, all the way back to 1775 and millions of sailors who have served. That’s a big step even for you? What do they call you-the admiral, that’s a good one. 😀

  • SamIam

    The only mockery of our sailors is coming from you when you spout off that the LCS is a warship. What real Navy warship has ever had to get a waiver to get commissioned? Oh I know the answer, the pathetic, built to commercial standards, lame crappy ship, aka the LCS. Would the army build a aluminum foil tracked vehicle armed with only a 30mm gun and call it an Abrams tank, and then say “you’re mocking everyone who serves on our tank” I don’t think so.

  • NavySubNuke

    Liar.
    That isn’t actually what they did at all as you well know but lack the integrity to admit.

  • NavySubNuke

    ** Pats Duane on the head ** Lying again Duane?
    The truth of course is that the Navy is “so proud” of LCS they are actually buying as few as congress will allow them to buy and they are actually going to buy a real frigate instead of just more little crappy ships since the fleet needs something more than virtually unarmed deathtraps that cost about 1/2 of what a DDG is when you include the mission modules and GFE.

  • Chesapeakeguy

    Well, with the Hellfires working, these ships will be able to take on any tanks they come across.

    • Ed L

      Tanks are tougher than ships

  • NavySubNuke

    Lying again Duane?
    I hate the LCS because it is an over priced and under-armed death trap that the Navy has wasted, and will continue to waste, billions of dollars on instead of buying actual warships.
    I hate that the Navy chose to keep both under-performing hull forms rather than choosing just one failed design thus doubling the cost of the logistics and training pipelines since we now need two different supply backbones, two different training infrastructures all because the Navy lacked the courage to tell one shipyard their failed design was worse than the other failed design.
    I hate the LCS because every 2 LCS you see represents a real warship the Navy didn’t buy because of arrogance and stupidity.
    I hate the LCS because we are manning them with brave men and women who have no actual hope of survive a fight with anything except a few speed boats at best.
    Come on now troll – you can do better than that!

  • NavySubNuke

    LOL. I do how you love to lie in order to make the LCS appear to be less of a complete and utter failure.
    Sure the Navy only wants the 32 LCS in the **plan** (wink wink) – but how long ago did that plan change? Oh yeah – right about the time the Navy was wrapping up testing on these under-armed and overpriced death traps and realizing how they were getting virtually no bang for the buck.
    How many LCS did the Navy actually ask for this year vs. how many did the ship building plan actually call for? Oh yeah, that’s right – they actually only wanted 1 but it looks like congress is going to force another on them.
    It really is entertaining how ridiculous your lies have become to try and defend this failed program.
    One day I really would like to know the true story of the role you have played in this monumental failure of a program that makes it so easy for you to lie and deceive to make it sound like less of a complete and total failure.

  • NavySubNuke

    Liar liar pants on fire.
    He is doing nothing of the sort. I’ve got friends who have served on/continue to serve on little crappy ships — they all know their actual chances of surviving a fight with anything even half their size.

  • NavySubNuke

    “You sneering critics claim that you are “for” the sailors, which is BS”
    LOL. Oh you silly lying troll it really is funny how you don’t get it.
    If you actually did you would realize that your constant lies and your smears against anyone who actually wants sailors to serve on ships that have a chance of venturing into harms way and surviving are what actually dishonors our sailors and their service not people who are willing to face the truth.
    I realize that whatever role you had to play in this program has caused you to sacrifice all objectivity and integrity in your flaccid and obviously false attempts to defend it but the least you can do is not insult people who are willing to tell the truth.
    Just stick to your lies and obviously false deceptions and don’t call into question the integrity and character of people actually willing to admit the truth – okay? Thanks!

  • NavySubNuke

    ** Pats Duane on the head ** Whatever lies you have to tell yourself. Personally I trust my friends and fellow serving officers as well as the expert analysis provided by independent assessors more than I trust carefully sanitized PR statements meant to keep up congressional support but realize you have no interest in the actual truth.

  • NavySubNuke

    LOL. Duane don’t you know it isn’t polite to talk about yourself?
    I realize it upsets you that I point out your lies and make it harder for you to try to deceive people but that is hardly a reason to have someone silenced.

  • NavySubNuke

    “The ESSMs and SM series missiles are for protecting escorted ships….. For own ship’s protection, SeaRAM is the best ”
    I can just an AB targeted by a cruise missile and ready to engage it with a standard missile when the Captain orders his crew to hold fire — “that missile is aimed at us and those missiles are for area defense — hold fire for the next 5 minutes until it gets into SEARAM range!”
    Just ask the CO of the USS Mason about how held fire until the ASCMs were in SEARAM range…. Oh no wait – thats right —- as reported by USNI News the Mason fired 2 SM-2s and an ESSM to defend itself.
    Come one Duane —– you can do better than that!

    • Old Salt

      Facts and logic are a foreign concept to the admiral

  • NavySubNuke

    I don’t hate a ship Duane – I hate a failed acquisition program that has wasted billions of dollars and years of effort.
    If you had even a shred of dignity or personal integrity and actually cared about our sailors rather than just lying and claiming that you did you would hate it and the waste it represents too.

  • NavySubNuke

    Exactly – the world changed and the Navy decided it needed ships that could engage in combat and have a reasonable chance of survival and so the plan changed.
    But thank you for admitting you were lying with the intent to deceive people when you stated the Navy wanted all of the LCS it planned for when in fact it only wants 61% of the LCS it planned for before it realized how little capability the LCS was actually going to provide.

  • WhiskeyTangoFoxtrot

    Of course the Navy want lots of LCS that “weren’t meant to go into harm’s way” as per the previous CNO, that’s make perfect sense, a whole class of ships that isn’t wanted or desired in the fight. So when the shooting starts, the task force commanders will stay, “now you LCS, your turn tail and go home now, war is not a safe place for you, you’ll be safe in your dry docks sucking on momma’s shore power”

  • Duane-aka Sir Lockmart

    One more ‘wave of the magic hand’ and the FFG(X), formally known as the LCS, suddently becomes a CG-then all of our problems will be solved. A final wave make it a Death Star.

  • Duane-aka Sir Lockmart

    The admiral is obviously ‘triggered.’ Now there there admiral, it’s ok, go to your safe place and scream at the sky, everything will be ok then

  • Retire CO

    The only person mocking our sailors is YOU when you keep repeating that the LCS is BAR NONE the greatest warship that ever floated. Your mocking them because you’re safe down in your basement saying “Go forth young sailor on the mighty LCS and face the enemy fleet, you’ll die fully knowing you were on the best ship BAR NONE.”

  • Tin-can sailor

    Duenee speak rule #1: Use the phrase BAR NONE to describe the LCS in every detail #2 Say that there no difference between and LCS and and Arleigh Burke destroyer #3 create lots of strawmen when arguing #4 repeat ad nausiam that the LCS is the greated most capable ship in the fleet #5 accuse anyone who doesn’t agree with rules 1-4 that they are ‘mocking’ sailors and officers (it’s equivalent of calling someone a r a c i s t)

  • Tom T

    I’m new to this discussion, so I have a few questions. 1. What is the Fleet Admiral and what made him so insecure? 2. Can any sane person defend the LCS, a ship that was launched 14 years ago and it’s still trying to figure out what it can do? 3. What crazy fool says that the LCS has the best capabilities of any warship. but yet it has never proved any of these capabities in fleet exercises nor in actual combat? 5. What basement dweller gets turned on by a few power point slides when the entire Navy community knows it’s all propaganda? Hopefully someone can answer these questions.

  • El Kabong

    It’s called “Failure”, Duaney.

  • Dunsheng Bryan

    Russian President Vladimir Putin, who frequently casts aspersions to modern digital technology, may view EMALS, AAG and other forms of modern naval technology as a threat. He may have harmed the US ability to innovate scientifically and technically, he may have yet to incite anti-tech Luddite uprisings across the world.